The public sector strikes

Rustydiver · Nov 30, 2011

Yep Tuesdays wildchild I'm with you on the con where schools and companies buy from one company, when I've unloaded the boxes at school seen the invoice noticed how much we've paid for some things, yep you can buy it cheaper locally in town for the exact same thing. If that made sense.
If the public sector was more savvy in buying things like the private sector perhaps the economy wouldn't be in such a state. On the news a while ago they had the local mod percuemnt office buying light bulbs for about £8 each from a authorised supplier the same bulb was £1 in a local shop.
Me thinks this is where a lot of money gets wasted.

ade t · Nov 30, 2011

I'm in the interesting position of being a public sector worker who's not lawfully permitted to strike!

lowie · Nov 30, 2011

all this strike managed to do is give the kids a day of school and cost the a lot of parents a extra days childcare so hope you all had a nice day off work and thanks for costing me a extra
forty quid
merry christmas

Shame eh? Cause all us teachers do is babysit other people's kids?
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72wilma · Nov 30, 2011

yep...let's not fall out over this, but I too did not have a choice when the Govt decided to move the goalposts and also spend my pension pot i am lucky in terms of the amount I earn... and I do earn it, believe me. Some of my colleagues earn minimum wage and they really could not afford to lose a day's pay either

Moons · Nov 30, 2011

Bailing out the banks contributed to some of the issues that is true. But not all of them. And, for me to have sympathy with the public sector action I think some comment on how a public sector pensions stack up against the rest of us non bankers private sector pensions needs to be made - and pretty well if not epically good (for those of us with businesses) is the answer.

But comparing just pension provision between public and private sector is not looking at the whole picture though, as far as I can see. There are pro's and cons between working in the public and private sector. Pensions is just one point of comparison. There's also job security (better in the public sector), possibility of bonuses/share options/dividends (private sector), wage levels (better in the private sector), autonomy, what sort of field you work in (some fields are only public sector, some only private) and so on. Which is why I can understand Woody's view of being in two minds. Yes, it's tough for both public and private sector.

An eminently reasonable reply - a few edges we could argue but on the whole I see your point and believe you can see mine.

I think the gap between public and private is at a high level this - public sector is funded off of the private sector - i.e. public sector does not produce wealth and is therefore unable to move to improve its situation (am open completely to the [glow=red,2,300]FACT[/glow] that our education system for example is a long term investment) - so in purely fiscal terms, without the ability to produce wealth the challenge for public sector is how to spend the money it gets from the revenue wisely - and that is the bugbear for me personally - there is a lot of inefficiency and waste in the public sector with a perceived attitude that it doesn't matter, as we just hike taxes.

Private sector simply does not have this - you simply don't survive.

Where this is an issue for the private sector is this - anyone working in this country baled out the banks - yet the banks won't loan to private enterprise, not an issue for public sector - you don't need to worry about cashflow etc as its all underwritten by the government.

Whats annoying is if we had efficient lean public sector enterprises, we wouldn't be able to make cuts - the [glow=red,2,300]FACT[/glow] that we can is such a sweeping manner tells its own story (don't misunderstand me, am not saying closing hospitals and schools is a good thing). The Police for example have been allowed to invent their own world of red tape and bureaucracy - private sector simply couldn't tolerate that.

British industry has taken an absolute pounding since the 60's, when it was largely government funded and inefficient. The private sector has had to be lean to survive - and it now looks like that is whats lined up for the public sector.

If it doesn't happen - then how long can we go on borrowing more than we make?

As I've said - its a real pity that the workers in the public sector aren't polled and given ownership on good ideas on how to make their industries more efficient - probably as that would involve some outside of the box thinking by their management - but there are some startingly bright hardworking people in the public sector simply never given a chance to improve their positions.

Why the unions and government are posturing and not trying to drive out how we save the patient is beyond me.
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lowie · Nov 30, 2011

yep...let's not fall out over this, but I too did not have a choice when the Govt decided to move the goalposts and also spend my pension pot i am lucky in terms of the amount I earn... and I do earn it, believe me. Some of my colleagues earn minimum wage and they really could not afford to lose a day's pay either
mwahh (that's a kiss by the way)can some one start a silly thread please
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lowie · Nov 30, 2011

Anyway where woody gone
Lit the blue touch paper and went to the pub lol

72wilma · Nov 30, 2011

mmm he's good at doing this is our woodster

Moons · Nov 30, 2011

mmm he's good at doing this is our woodster

you would imagine with a name like that, he would be more careful starting fires....
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Woodylubber · Nov 30, 2011

mmm he's good at doing this is our woodster

Anyway where woody gone
Lit the blue touch paper and went to the pub lol

Just been for some more popcorn
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72wilma · Nov 30, 2011

mind you don't choke on it

baygeekster · Nov 30, 2011

Bailing out the banks contributed to some of the issues that is true. But not all of them. And, for me to have sympathy with the public sector action I think some comment on how a public sector pensions stack up against the rest of us non bankers private sector pensions needs to be made - and pretty well if not epically good (for those of us with businesses) is the answer.

But comparing just pension provision between public and private sector is not looking at the whole picture though, as far as I can see. There are pro's and cons between working in the public and private sector. Pensions is just one point of comparison. There's also job security (better in the public sector), possibility of bonuses/share options/dividends (private sector), wage levels (better in the private sector), autonomy, what sort of field you work in (some fields are only public sector, some only private) and so on. Which is why I can understand Woody's view of being in two minds. Yes, it's tough for both public and private sector.

An eminently reasonable reply - a few edges we could argue but on the whole I see your point and believe you can see mine.

I think the gap between public and private is at a high level this - public sector is funded off of the private sector - i.e. public sector does not produce wealth and is therefore unable to move to improve its situation (am open completely to the [glow=red,2,300]FACT[/glow] that our education system for example is a long term investment for example) - so in purely fiscal terms, without the ability to produce wealth the challenge for public sector is how to spend the money it gets from the revenue wisely - and that is the bugbear for me personally - there is a lot of inefficiency and waste in the public sector with a perceived attitude that it doesn't matter, as we just hike taxes.

Private sector simply does not have this - you simply don't survive.

Where this is an issue for the private sector is this - anyone working in this country baled out the banks - yet the banks won't loan to provate enterprise, not an issue for public sector - you don't need to worry about cashflow etc as its all underwritten by the government.

Whats annoying is if we had efficient lean public sector enterprises, we wouldn't be able to make cuts - the [glow=red,2,300]FACT[/glow] that we can is such a sweeping manner tells its own story (don't misunderstand me, am not saying closing hospitals and schools is a good thing). The Police for example have been allowed to invent their own world of red tape and bureaucracy - private sector simply couldn't tolerate that.

British industry has taken an absolute pounding since the 60's, when it was largely government funded and inefficient. The private sector has had to be lean to survive - and it now looks like that is whats lined up for the public sector.

If it doesn't happen - then how long can we go on borrowing more than we make?

As I've said - its a real pity that the workers in the public sector aren't polled and given ownership on good ideas on how to make their industries more efficient - probably as that would involve some outside of the box thinking by their management - but there are some startingly bright hardworking people in the public sector simply never given a chance to improve their positions.

Why the unions and government are posturing and not trying to drive out how we save the patient is beyond me.

Yes I agree - it's criminal the wastage that occurs, and it's frustrating when you can see this and can do nothing about it.

It's interesting you mention about the public sector needing to become lean to survive. I work in the university sector, and the changes in student fees are therefore going to produce the conditions you refer to that will force universities to become leaner and more efficient, because they will be dealing with money that comes solely from students, and students who will be acutely aware of exactly how much money they are giving to the universities to provide them with an education.
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lowie · Nov 30, 2011

I must admit I toyed with starting it off when I came in from WORK
But thought no and then got sucked in myself doh

Tuesday wildchild · Nov 30, 2011

Bailing out the banks contributed to some of the issues that is true. But not all of them. And, for me to have sympathy with the public sector action I think some comment on how a public sector pensions stack up against the rest of us non bankers private sector pensions needs to be made - and pretty well if not epically good (for those of us with businesses) is the answer.

But comparing just pension provision between public and private sector is not looking at the whole picture though, as far as I can see. There are pro's and cons between working in the public and private sector. Pensions is just one point of comparison. There's also job security (better in the public sector), possibility of bonuses/share options/dividends (private sector), wage levels (better in the private sector), autonomy, what sort of field you work in (some fields are only public sector, some only private) and so on. Which is why I can understand Woody's view of being in two minds. Yes, it's tough for both public and private sector.

An eminently reasonable reply - a few edges we could argue but on the whole I see your point and believe you can see mine.

I think the gap between public and private is at a high level this - public sector is funded off of the private sector - i.e. public sector does not produce wealth and is therefore unable to move to improve its situation (am open completely to the [glow=red,2,300][glow=red,2,300]FACT[/glow][/glow] that our education system for example is a long term investment for example) - so in purely fiscal terms, without the ability to produce wealth the challenge for public sector is how to spend the money it gets from the revenue wisely - and that is the bugbear for me personally - there is a lot of inefficiency and waste in the public sector with a perceived attitude that it doesn't matter, as we just hike taxes.

Private sector simply does not have this - you simply don't survive.

Where this is an issue for the private sector is this - anyone working in this country baled out the banks - yet the banks won't loan to provate enterprise, not an issue for public sector - you don't need to worry about cashflow etc as its all underwritten by the government.

Whats annoying is if we had efficient lean public sector enterprises, we wouldn't be able to make cuts - the [glow=red,2,300][glow=red,2,300]FACT[/glow][/glow] that we can is such a sweeping manner tells its own story (don't misunderstand me, am not saying closing hospitals and schools is a good thing). The Police for example have been allowed to invent their own world of red tape and bureaucracy - private sector simply couldn't tolerate that.

British industry has taken an absolute pounding since the 60's, when it was largely government funded and inefficient. The private sector has had to be lean to survive - and it now looks like that is whats lined up for the public sector.

If it doesn't happen - then how long can we go on borrowing more than we make?

As I've said - its a real pity that the workers in the public sector aren't polled and given ownership on good ideas on how to make their industries more efficient - probably as that would involve some outside of the box thinking by their management - but there are some startingly bright hardworking people in the public sector simply never given a chance to improve their positions.

Why the unions and government are posturing and not trying to drive out how we save the patient is beyond me.

Yes I agree - it's criminal the wastage that occurs, and it's frustrating when you can see this and can do nothing about it.

It's interesting you mention about the public sector needing to become lean to survive. I work in the university sector, and the changes in student fees are therefore going to produce the conditions you refer to that will force universities to become leaner and more efficient, because they will be dealing with money that comes solely from students, and students who will be acutely aware of exactly how much money they are giving to the universities to provide them with an education.

STUDENTS don't get me started oin them idle beer drinking Jeremy Kyle whatching good for nothinks. :banghead:
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PIE · Nov 30, 2011

I dont think the Police invented the red tape, it was imposed on them by a Government obsessed with statistics. (which they could then choose to ignore or manipulate to make them look better)
The people recording and analysing these useless statistics also bulk up the already overweight sector!

lowie · Nov 30, 2011

I dont think the Police invented the red tape, it was imposed on them by a Government obsessed with statistics. (which they could then choose to ignore or manipulate to make them look better)
The people recording and analysing these useless statistics also go to bulk up the already overweight sector!
oh and don't forget the health and safety lot I d take a leaf out of
Clarkeson s book and line em up and shoot and that's regardless of if they was on strike or not
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loudoo2 · Nov 30, 2011

Sorry I don't have much sympathy.

I work 37.5 hours a week and then more when I get home. I don't get school holidays off - I have to pay £150 for childcare a week during the holidays. I will probably work till I'm 70. I have to pay into a pension that is worth very little extra than what I've put in. I don't get paid excessive amounts for what I do.

I had to sort out childcare for today. By the time I left work picked up my son it was 8.30. Happy - not really.

Rustydiver · Nov 30, 2011

I get all the school holidays of because I work for a school, but I don't get paid for them I only get paid for the time when am in school. But then I don't have to pay for childcare as I'm off.

Tuesday wildchild · Nov 30, 2011

I hate this discusion

Just found my now very cold cuppa

Rustydiver · Nov 30, 2011

Urrragh cold tea.
My youngest will drink his an hour after it's been made.

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The public sector strikes

Rustydiver

ade t

lowie

72wilma

Moons Guest

lowie

lowie

72wilma

Moons Guest

Woodylubber Obsessive compulsive name changer

72wilma

baygeekster

lowie

Tuesday wildchild I'm a circle!

PIE

lowie

loudoo2

Rustydiver

Tuesday wildchild I'm a circle!

Rustydiver

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The public sector strikes

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Woodylubber Obsessive compulsive name changer

Tuesday wildchild I'm a circle!

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