In the UK we have two types of Muslims, those who came here from their own country and those born here. I see a conflict. The older folks brought their customs and attitudes with them and I don't believe they will change. Their kids born here are torn between adopting our customs and attitudes and trying to integrate, and their parents wanting them to have their values, and try to impose them and keep their kids away from their western friends. We have had some very bad crimes where parents have harmed or killed their children because they refused to obey their parents. Sorry to mention the Oman again, but I saw the more tribal and traditional parts of the country where women were kept completely covered and were treated as inferior and the Dad was the one who could and did walk with the children and the wife/mother trailing behind. I could only observe, its their culture not mine. In contrast, around the capital area this was less so and women had jobs and cars and were treated more equally. So times are changing.
Subservient? Instead of us bleating on, why not read an atheist forum of ex muslims?..... http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?board=28.0 Topic: 10 paces behind husband? http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3353.0 Blatant misogyny in Islam is what is making me question it. http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=29185.0 "when I was Muslim everyone was in denial on the issue of rape and slavery and prepubescent girls. They explained it away by whatever means they could." "I took the etiquettes to the extreme though, never spoke to a guy, only if necessary, no eye contact, strict segregation in my home, i never mixed with any men at all, i guess i'd had enough.. It was a culture shock coming back to the western lifestyle and talking to men again, was also very difficult." "Misogynistic verses in the quran was a major reason for me to see the bullMarmite in Islam as well." I'll leave it there I think.
Cool. No more atrocities. They've run their course. Glad that's sorted. Shall we talk about vans now?
yes german ones , do you want me to quote british army atrocities ww1 ww2 pre 1900 pre 1800 pre 1700 pre 1600 pre 1500 , black ,white ,indian ,paskistian , americian IRISH , etc etc this has been going on all over the world , not a new thing
ive already put stuff up . ie about what happened in ni , cameron coming to derry crying we are so sorry british soldiers killed UNARMED working class people looking for social housing equal rights as prods , etc etc , irish not allowed to speak irish , since 1500 s . made illegal ,and yes we killed british soldiers , it was a war . ive made many claims but , x soldiers mod navy raf . wont comment as they NO the truth about about the war in ni , what they where allowed to no , what they thought they knew , and WHAT WAS REAL , not what the POsH BOYS TOLD them , and yes i had military members on all of above . not he sa,e as is , but ive been brought up in it , how many of ye have seen gun battles , knee capping , have ye ever thrown a pb , thrown a stone , etc seen some one knee capped , shot dead blown up , the person next grave to my daughter was executed , etc , the point i was making was no point everyone falling out , points where made good or bad , but mods should stop this now . its a vw forum , and yes am as guilty as hell slap my hand lol
Because you've found a web page that 'proves' Islam = very bad. Or because anyone that doubts your take on this = pro Islam? Has it occurred to you that your polar opposition places you at same level of extreme as those that you detest, it's just you are 'anti' as opposed to 'pro'. You assert statements such as 'never change' with an alarming lack of care (never is a long time, and your web page reference blows your arguement out of the water surely) and cite evidence with an air if authority that your theories can't back up. Did you know that domestic violence against women goes up 25% when England lose at football. What sort of country boasts a national sport that when they lose at it, women invariable suffer. What sort of sick country supports this disgusting behaviour? See how easy that is to cite cause and effect!? Islam = long way from perfect. Western culture = long way from perfect Perfect = how each faction sees their view of reality for themselves and anyone else Reality=middle ground where those that don't care have to suffer the out lining few. I remain content that my assertion that something is fuelling all this at this time. If my unwillingness to live at the extremis of opinion/belief over Islam makes me a liberal then fear not, my Lloyd George t shirt is already ironed.
After reading this whole thread again, nothing anyone has said has changed anything. GO US!!! WHOOHOO.
I wasn't aware that discussions had to have an outcome per se, I assumed that it's a topic that some want to share their thoughts on more than anything else.
I agree with that. its good to make sense of the world chewing the cud with folks from the comfort of home, at your leisure and when you have a few minutes to spare. Im as guilty as anyone for wanting answers but that's the human condition isn't it. if someone on here knows the answers then all is good. Its a healthy thing to do. Its nice to talk face to face and for a number of us that happens a couple of times a year but invariably its somewhat more convivial. But for those who don't go to Techenders then be aware that we spend all weekend talking about those that don't go and for info there's a fair bit of light hearted banter but not had an argument or disagreement with anyone there yet and don't expect ever to do so.
"I'll leave it there," because I've said enough on the subject and those people are in a better position to explain their experiences. Take your liberal blinkers off man and read. Don't be ridiculous, speaking out against extremism isn't the same. Domestic violence isn't tolerated in the UK as I've already explained. We have prison, courts, police, shelters, charities, support groups and campaigns that deal with it. The Quran legitimises domestic violence. Religion is fuelling it, created to impose power and control over the population and bring some order to anarchy. Lloyd George; like I said, liberals allow extremists to flourish. The guy who fought to keep post WW1 Germany strong at the Treaty of Versailles creating a monster that devastated Europe. Called Hitler "the greatest living German" and insisted they would never wage war. The guy who gave gaelic extremists in Ireland a country in 1920, creating a monster causing decades of bloodshed to this day. Sitting on the fence does not help the world.
Man do you merrily skip through history and cherry pick the bits that suit you. You've misquoted what he said about Hitler, and if you read around his observation made at the time regarding Germany's then rise from the ruins of the First World War to an economic power house, he was spot on. Factually, Hitler took 'his people' to prosperity whilst stamping on anyone that got in the way...I'd have thought the far right would have dug that (if not the method and outcome) The original treaty of Versailles was made after WW1 and was a tightrope between punishing Germany and trying to stave off communism and crushing the citizens. Literally crushing Germany would have led to a Russian invasion and a different war....but war nonetheless. Lloyd George was PM to 1922, Hitler gained office 11 years later....a period where successive Conservative governments lodged their tongues firmly up his Arse pipe and then became powerless as he turned into a monster. Lloyd George listened to the people of Ireland, just as you want present governments to bow to the will of the people...he stopped a civil war...vested interests kept the bloodshed flowing over generations. Appreciate the line on 'reading', I'm suffering badly from doing it between the lines, give it a go, you might surprise yourself. Let's not get into a battle of who can use google more effectively....ultimatly I don't disagree with 'there is a problem' I utterly disagree at to why and consequently 'how to fix it'. If that doesn't suit you then so be it, I'm sure the edited highlights of history barrage works for many, just not me. As a closer from me 'sitting on a fence doesn't work'.....Why is there a fence, who built it and what for....those are the questions that need answers.
