So how much does a Train driver earn then?

Never bought a copy of it in my life. In fact I probably havent bought any papers for twenty five years. My opinion on the current state of politics Is different to yours. It doesn’t make me childish. Would you have been calling me childish when I was telling everyone that John Major had to go and was voting for Blair?

 

For Zed. Enjoy.

 

Your flip-flop reactionary voting appear to be based on election slogans. If you can't cut through them and recognise the essential difference between the two main parties... I just hope you don't live in a constituency where it matters. The problem with this country (IMO) is that elections are decided by the very people who can't make up their minds!

 

Your entrenched voting appears to be based on outdated tribal loyalties. If you can’t recognise that sometimes the country needs one direction and other times another, and that there’s actually more than two parties, then maybe you should stop reading the same newspaper every day. The problem with this country is that the elections are decided by people who voted the same way every time without cutting through the blinkered party loyalty, meaning that it’s a forgone conclusion in most constituencies which way they will go, which actually means that in a lot of cases as you say their vote doesn’t actually matter. Maybe if more people stopped voting like you, and actually voted like a flip flopper like me then there wouldn’t be so many safe seats and comfortable MPs from all sides and then they might actually starting acing in our best interests and not theirs.

And as a side note, I think to rude or hostile towards someone because they happen to not vote the same way as you shows poor form. We live in a democracy. Your vote and your political view point isn’t worth more or isn’t in any way more superior to anyone else, despite which you might think. By all means criticise politicians, it’s their job, and their policies. But telling people they don’t understand, or implying they are a bit thick cos you’ve decided they read a certain newspaper or that somehow they are wasting their vote cos they don’t happen to have voted the same way as you every time actually is more a reflection on your issues. Not theirs. Ive openly criticised many aspects of the Tory government and Borris. I’ve also voiced my misgivings about many aspects of the Labour Party. I had a little dig at the Green Party as well recently on here. What I have never done is made personal digs,jibes,attacks at other forum members because of the way they choose to vote. You aren’t the thought police. If you want to be I suggest you go and live in Saudi Arabia and tow the party line.

 

Where have I shown support for a political party other than debunking myths about the labour party's handling of the economy which has always been as good if not better than the Tory's?
I don't understand your focus on the personalities, they really are not important - look what the party in power actually does. You and soooo many people focus on the leader who is there for the characters that really matter to hide behind. In that way BJ is a huge success for his party, diverting attention away from what his party is doing. He's not a dictator, he's just a figurehead.

What have the Tory's done for us? Sold everything commonly owned by the people, increased the wealth gap, taken away peoples ways of standing up for themselves and what they believe in, turned the staples of life into profit making, turned housing into investment vehicles. Heck, they've turned everything into an investment. They dream up schemes that make small business too expensive to survive. I could go on and on but their direction is clear - take from the poor - give to the rich. And by poor I mean 90% of us.

The labour party's aims are broadly the opposite, it's that simple. Why not decide what you stand for and vote for it?

Your assumptions on my voting habits are amusing though as I haven't voted once in my whole life, I've never lived anywhere that was changed colour in my lifetime. The first past the post system encourages the extreme politics this country suffers under with too many policies designed to thwart the opposition should they get in power.

Lastly, you are often posting your random reactionary political views on here. If you can't stand criticism for them, don't post them?

 

On an even more simple basis, when has this country been a happy place and when has it been gloomy. IMO hands down happiest was New Labour, most miserable, Thatcher/major and now this lot.

 

I think probably the Brexit flag waving nonsense has helped fuel inflation and in turn this miserable situation,
But in good old Boris/Tory and stiff upper lip Tory voters,
Are going to blame covid or the war or something else,
If people keep voting for wealthy Etonians we will get nowhere and be fighting each for the few crumbs that they throw us when it comes to the election time again.

 

I will take criticism when it’s valid. But not based on how I choose to vote in a free country. First of all you accused me of being childish, essentially ignorant of the real world, a child, because you wrongly assumed that I’m a Daily Mail reader, and a lifelong Tory voter. When it turned out that actually I make my mind up at each general election, apparently that wasn’t good enough either and people like me are what’s wrong with this country because we flip flop in your words. I guess there’s nothing wrong with being a life long labour voter in your eyes though is there. Those people don’t warrant a series of personal insults.

Then in your latest post your again start with your assumptions that I am somehow ignorant of politics and can only vote for personalities. Presumably cos I’m a bit thick,right? Well I voted for Borris cos I saw it as the only reasonable way to get Brexit over the line. You think I voted for him cos I’ve seen him on Have I Got News for You and liked his scruffy hair and wonky tie?

Given the fact you’ve just admitted that you don’t even vote, it’s made your attack on me even more laughable. Every five years you’ve got the opportunity to have your say and change things, and you’ve got the bare faced cheek to accuse me of wasting my vote by flip flopping when you don’t even use yours. Get off your high horse and go down the polling station and write none of the above and put it in the box. People died so you can vote and all you can do is snipe at a complete stranger on a forum. Disgraceful.

 

Will you two get a room ffs

 

This is getting silly now
Why don’t you just use the private message option rusty?
I doubt that you will get to Zeddle publicly anyway,
Incidentally I make no excuse for
Airing my views on Brexit
I was quite happy being part of the EU
Every time I go through passport control
And have my passport stamped with attitude
It reminds me that I have been forced into a situation built on lies,
This I wanted no part of ,

There was nowhere near enough information given on such an important matter,
So that’s democracy as you keep reminding us.

 

Yes it is. I voted to leave, to be honest I was gob smacked when that was the outcome. But should the outcome have been the opposite then whilst disappointed I’d have lived with it, as it was a vote open to everyone. I most certainly wouldn’t be casting aspersions about an individual’s intelligence due to the fact that they voted remain and remain won.

why should I use a private message function. He’s insulted me on the open forum so I think I’m entitled to my right of reply on the open forum as well.

 

As in politics
You wish to persist with it
Just try to be nice,
Has it occurred that you may of offended Zeddle
Anyway every time you you say
Brexit and we won
It’s like sticking pins in a Pedro del monkey bike doll

 

It was this that set me off. It's simplistic repeated BS spawned from Tory propaganda. If you so readily suck up and repeat this kind of thing what am I supposed to think of the depth of your political understanding? Your unwillingness to absorb facts such as how pitifully BAD the Tory's are for the economy just compound MY view of your shallow approach. You started it by spouting offensive political nonsense, I just called you out for it in your own terms. I even showed you the graph.

I've never voted because the system does not allow my vote to count for anything. In that regard our democracy is a sham at best. If we had some kind of proportional representation I'd vote. I didn't vote in the Brexit thing because quite honestly I didn't care either way but I guess I'd be in favour purely to stop politicians hiding behind the "Not us it's the EU" defence. Not that the EU ever had much negative effect on the UK, the £360M or whatever is chicken feed in the scheme of things.

 

Starmer has failed to land any decisive blows on Johnson throughout the last two years, despite some appalling behaviour in Downing Street and some unforgivable errors like discharging covid positive people into care homes and the down right offensive policy of telling NHS staff they must have a mandatory vaccination to keep their employment. It could be argued that in fact the only real damage to be inflicted on Borris has been by himself, the media and lately a sizeable chunk, of his own back benchers. Starmer has largely been along for the ride. What actually are his policies, does anyone know? His entire position appears to have been elect me, I’m not Corbyn, and now elect me I’m not Borris.

Rayner has already shown herself to be of dubious character. Remember it was only a few weeks ago that she was all over the tv and print telling everyone how offended she was at the Basic Instinct Scandal and at how appalling that she should be treated this way, until it emerged that it’s highly likely that it was her that actually started the rumour during a late night drinkies in a HoP Members bar. This is a lady that was rightly shocked by the murder of Jo Cox, but not shocked enough not to refer to opposition MPs as scum in the chamber, which she only withdrew under protest after several warnings from the speaker.

Oh then we have Ms Abbott. Obviously the stand out moment was the car crash radio interview over funding police. But even this week, when Kier Starmer specifically told Labour MPs not to stand on RMT picket lines, what does she do? She does it anyway, completely undermining his authority, making him look like a weak leader who can’t control the radical left wing elements of the party, giving the impression that they will simply ignore what he says once they are in power. That’s really clever isn’t it. When your own leader is attacking the PM for his lack of authority over the No10 staff, she hands it to the Tories on a plate by completely highlighting his own lack of authority. Oh yeah she’s a real political asset isn’t she.

If you don’t think we are heading for wage driven inflation then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. If the RMT get a huge pay rise, do you think all the other unions won’t be looking to get the same?

I noticed the graph you posted didn’t mention the note left by the last outgoing Labour government saying “sorry there’s no money left”

I still don’t see any apology for the personal insults by the way. Like I say, debate me all day about politics, disagree with my viewpoints, point out where you feel I am I’m error, insult politicians, but don’t insult my intelligence or my morals. I don’t do that to you or anyone else on here and I think I’m entitled to the same common courtesy in return.

 

Ahh yes that 360m
This train strike must be costing the economy
A fair bit?

 

I’m not trying to cause an argument here but why exactly are they striking. Whenever I see the bald bloke from the RMT interviewed he just says things like “pay and conditions”. One of my mates works on the underground. He reckons that he generally earns about £70k a year and that if he times his holidays around his rota he can normally work it so he doesn’t do more than 180 days a year.

So I assumed they were striking to improve the pay of maybe the lower pay scale employees, but when I saw on the tv yesterday what a signaller or track worker earns it’s proper money. Way in excess of what the average wage must be.

so what’s it all about? If it was nurses and hospital staff then I could understand it more as god knows those people deserve all they can get, but of all the public sector workers I’d have thought that the railway staff were probably about the best payed aren’t they? I know my mate who’s a fireman probably earns less than half what a train driver earns and I challenge anyone to say that I fireman isn’t a more dangerous and stressful job.

 

Diane Abbott is largely peripheral figure at the moment , she was a Corbynite. She has no shadow cabinet position currently as far as I know.

 

They nearly earn as much as a gas man

 

Why do they earn good money? They have proper representation. Maybe you'd be happier if everyone was equally badly paid rather than equally well paid? Don't get it. Unions are a good thing not a bad thing. They had become too powerful in the 70's, 50 years ago but that time has long passed. Before unions workers had no rights at all. Without unions that would still be the case and for a large section of underpaid workers who's business owners make a good profit, the tax payer is making up their wages with social security payments. So many businesses are taking money out of everyone's pockets and putting it in their own. You don't need to work for them - your tax is paying their wage bills and what do they do with it? They cheat the very tax system that's propping them up.

MacDonalds just paid up 1.3 billion euros as a settlement to keep a tax fraud out of court in France... that's just France. You can bet they they are frauding the UK taxpayer in exactly the same way and WE are ALL paying a proportion of their labour costs. That's just one company. How else could they sell burgers so cheaply and keep investing in more and more outlets? You and I can not hope to compete because WE would have to pay our tax bill. The sums involved make a Union's claim for a bit more pay look like chicken feed and somehow we are supposed to be grateful for these companies providing jobs?

 

But that doesn’t answer my basic question which is why the RMT union feels that it needs its members to strike at this present moment? I wasn’t questioning the need for unions. Im trying to establish what it is right now that requires strike action?

I’ve just read an article with an interview with an RMT member who said “it’s unhelpful for the media to focus on train drivers salaries, we want to achieve £15 an hour for a train cleaner” Given that he then went on to say that they work four twelve hour shifts a week, that’s over £700 a week as an unskilled cleaner. If they are earning that then I might as well wind up my business and go and do that instead. He went on to say that partly the reason they are striking is to encourage all other public sector employees, nurses, teachers, firemen etc to strike as well So is this what it’s really about, are the unions trying to get their strikes in now, in the dying couple of years of this Tory government, because they sure as hell won’t risk damaging the new Labour government in their first term.