Heres a Bosch, made in Germany bearing that Bosch part number ..and VW 205 partnumber. .. no letters .. hmm.
Right so let’s get back on track and we have gone full circle here. The new distributor is in and things are still not running right. Huge flat spots, popping and delay. Hesitation and vehicle not performing as it should. I am going to check the timing again, as not sure it is right. The carb is cleaned out. Questions: 1. When doing the static timing on the 123? You rotate the engine clockwise to 7.5 BTDC then turn the distributor clockwise beyond the point necessary. You then turn the distributor anti-clockwise until the LED lights up. You also make sure the rotor slack os pushed and tensioned anti-clockwise as well? 2. I am told I have bought a 1600 but as it is a recon I cannot be 100% certain from the engine codes alone. How can you measure/identify a 1600 from a 1300 externally without engine codes? 3. I don’t think this can be a carb issue as it happens off idle between 1000 and 2000 ish rpm. Is there anything I am missing that could be fuel related? 3. I have a brand new bosch coil from about 15 years ago somewhere. Is there any way this is the coil? 4. The Haynes manual says that the spark plug gap should be 0.7mm but most threads say 0.6mm. What is correct?
I’d check valve clearances , leak down test , timing , check for air leaks , then if all fine it’s carb … engine is a complete unknown ?
1) just move the distributor body don't tension the rotor. Follow the instructions then check with your timing gun at idle afterwards. 2) You can't really tell. The number on the heads might be a clue but even those might have been machined. If the part number is a 1600 head then it would be fair to assume it's a 1600. 3) Pass. But coils tend to act up more and more as the revs increase. 4) 0.6mm but whatever, 0.7 shouldn't cause the symptoms you describe. Sorry to say this could be many different things, even the distributor cap on a new 123 distributor (see the 123 post not far down the mech page). However as these symptoms were there previously that's unlikely. Could be your HT leads. Could be an air leak. Could be you set carb up wrong. Could be valve not seating problem. I'm a suspicious kind of guy, but an engine removed from a vehicle and stored in a shed. Why? If it was a good one wouldn't it still be in the vehicle? I know there are perfectly genuine reasons this could happen, but...
2) Unlikely it's a 1300, but...have you got an engine back bar that bolts to the engine? Likely to be a 1600 if so (but not guarenteed if someone has swapped cases). Twin port or single port?
Sounds electrical to me like a weak spark. I'd start with a cheap set of HT leads, or if you have any odd ones knocking about use you to replace the king lead. Total guess of course but cheap and easy place to start seeing as you've done plugs and distributor already and changed coil (?) to no effect. That would finish the electrical side so you could move onto something else. These things can be terribly frustrating, I once spent a week changing manifold parts and trying a few pict 34 carbs and got nowhere, in the end a pair of ICTs I was trying to not fit so I could sell them cured it. Never got to the bottom of that.
The dizzy (123 tune ) I just had behaved similar.. and I've had a couple of other caps recently do the same the carbon contact piece in the middle is loose and on the edge of falling out.. worth checking Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
Sometimes that carbon pin can be destroyed by rotor arms where the brass strip glued in the top is not lying flat where the peg presses on it. The effect is to waggle the peg round and round, and it can wear out in 150 miles.. somebody fitted up an engine, drove to Volksworld and it needed a new distributor cap and rotor arm before leaving.
Now you have worked through all of the simpler reasons, start thinking inside the box. When I burnt a piston recently, I was driving the bus for probably about a mile at 50 mph struggling to find a layby or junction on the A34. I could describe that engine as down on power and running a bit rough. Blowing oil out from round the pulley, light smoke coming out of the oil filler.. After being towed by the AA we got to speed bumps a few hundred metres from my house I started the engine and it drove fairly well all the way home. A bit rough, bit down on power. But that had 115, 0, 115, 115 psi compression. Some people have driven vehicles with engines in that condition that just pottering around town in the USA.. Look at the way the two rear cylinders are both a bit low compression, almost the same. The only cylinder that is really good is No3. Imagine what happens if a cam lobe fails.. both cylinders will change together . Its a bit off piste as a theory you could check by measuring the movement of valves using a dial indicator. Or a valve seat that has come loose and stops a cylinder firing sometimes.. I would look at the way the valves move as you turn the engine over. Check all valve stems are level with each other with the rocker arm assemblies are off. Then take the heads off, look down cylinders for scoring marks. Its probably going to end up that your old engines heads with a re seating with grinding paste of the valves may be the fix you need. Unless the cylinder bores are scored, then you might need your old pistons and cylinders too..
there’s some interesting info here if you’ve not seen it before http://www.vw-resource.com/hestate4.html
Okay so a lot of responses so I will try to address all points and issues to see if that clarifies things. I realise that diagnosing over the internet with limited info is not really going to magically cure it. In terms of timing, the instructions actually stare to take the slack out of the rotor. One thing I wonder though is if max advance is at 3800 rpm according to the manual then how can you check the timing with anything less than revving the engine to 3800 rpm. If you set the static timing to 7.5 BTDC then at idle should it be at 7.5 BTDC? Someone said to me “your sure it’s a 1600cc” and I said yea and then started to think. I can’t prove it. It is twin port but it is a beetle engine case so has an adapter for the support bar which doesn’t help confirm its size. I haven’t replaced the coil or HT leads yet. I have a brand new Bosch blue coil from 15 years amongst my things but struggling to find it. But the engine seems happiest at high rpm and revs up smoothly. I have seen the price of used unknown stock carbs and I almost think I wii or ups be better of servicing and rebuilding the Dell 36 DRLAs I bought recently and putting them on. In terms of the new distributor, when you say the contact in the middle. Do you mean the spring loaded contact in the middle moves too much side to side? In terms of the valves, although the compression is not great. Don’t the compression readings rule out a valve problem. I don’t understand what you mean when you say a cam lobe fails? There is no way after robbing me of happiness, holiday, time and a lot of money that I am going to start stripping this heads and cylinders off this current engine now.
Just check the idle timing with your strobe, the curve in the 123 will assure you the full advance is correct. Checking full advance is for when using 40-50 year old ones or 009 type that could be way off. Yes you could try the dells. Let us know what size venturi they have and the jet sizes and we'll try and advise. Try to read anything Mike suggests with a pinch of salt. Sorry, had to be said before he sends you off checking and worrying about pointless things unconnected to your actual circumstances. Your cam is fine, your compression numbers should run fine. Below 80psi isn't good but anything above will run. Assume you checked your valve gaps? re the 1300/1600 thing, take a rocker cover off, note and post (or google) the part number you'll see on the head. Something like this - 113 101 375A .
Bit late to the party, as always, but in opening post, you say you put in new plugs. Not sure if they are still in, but were these by any chance Bosch W8cc from C H I N A. Recently had van set up by someone that knows a lot more than me, (Drag races a turbo beetle all over Europe, with a cupboard full of trophies)and new plugs W8CC were fitted, (2ltr) , and it drove home.......didn't run as well as I thought it would. Parked it up in the garage, and 2 weeks later started it up. Fired instantly, then cut out, then started again, and wouldn't idle at all, but would rev, but was very lumpy, and popping back out of the oil breather, or so it seemed., and everywhere else. Almost as it all the leads were mixed up. Traced it down to a misfire on no 3. Took out the NEW plug, and it was wet and shiny, so out of curiosity I put the old NGK B6ES back in. It started straight away and was much better, running on 4 but not idling. so I swapped all the plugs back to NGK, and its a smooth as dairy milk now. So I can only put it down to duff plugs, and on googling, duff Chinese plugs are now a thing. (plugs taken back , no issue, when I had 2 new wheel cylinders fitted last week.)
So I replaced the rocker covers today because itseems even with new gaskets there was an oil leak e with the old ones. Hopefully this will sort the oil leak with new covers and gaskets. The engine see doesn’t seem to be running right. It starts initially all fine. When warm it requires quite a few cranks with accelerator flat to the floor. I am wondering if it is carb icing or a combination of issues. Although at high rpm it seems fine, it seems still underpowered and a bit gutless. The plugs are new Bosch W8 plugs. I understand there may be issues but not sure if this would be the issue if the engine runs ok at higher rpm. The engine basically bogs below 2000-2500 rpm. Putting foot to the floor stops it from spluttering and kangarooing but still the pick-up from there is ridiculously slow and gutless. When doing the the rocker covers I took photos of the cylinder head numbers. Any thoughts?
First one, if I read it right - 043-101-375P is a 1300 head. Can't read the letter on the second one - R? Still I think another 1300 head. But, we have not proved that it hasn't been converted to 1600 at some point as that is possible.
The foot on the floor when warm starting is normal. More general comment - maybe theres nothing wrong, just you arent used to it .. Some of the bogging/roughness trying to deliver power below 2000 rpm can be because the 1600 engine generally doesnt like going that slow delivering power - like the VW recommendation in 4th gear is 30mph which is about 2000 rpm to about 60mph + or about 4000+ rpm . More revs may be better - dont expect it to pull off the line from idle without some complaint. Slip the clutch. You can still get general flat spots even with the engine revving in neutral, as the engine picks up if the accelerator pump isnt delivering petrol to fill in the gap as the throttle butterfly opens, more air comes in but the engine is still going the same speed. Even a small tweak on the mixture screw helps. And not being warmed up, or without the hot air feed and working preheat, keeps flat spots throughout the drive. After about 3 to 5 miles it ought to be warm enough to no longer mess around.
He knows how to drive it and how it should perform Mike, this a replacement for the one with the hole in the case. Keep up at the back.
I was trying to be positive. But it does seem like the engine comes from a "fried out Kombi", and that whatever was done to it by the previous owner makes it almost worse than the engine that ran OK with end float but had a nasty oil leak from a crack in the case... There is probably a reasonable engine in the combination of the two, with more work than just swapping tinware unfortunately.. I had my first Vege engine out about 5 times in 6 months sorting issues that werent quite right.. by the time I got to the T2D Boot Camp some of it was very familiar
