Whats not acceptable in a resto?

What Zed says. Unless money is no object, "restorers" are under pressure to deliver at an affordable price, which means lots of filler and a nice shiny paint job on top. Quality DIYers do the job right, because they don't cost their hours, but if buying a van, you need to make sure they did actually know what they were doing.

 

Good thread para. Certainly got me thinking.
At the moment I'm only interest in using my van and doing the odd bit of work to it myself so I'm able to keep using it. I know this means that a few running repairs may not be the best way, but I won't do anything that's unsafe or a bodge just to keep using it.
When I have the pennies I will give it to someone who knows what they're doing. And that won't be the place that will do it the cheapest, it'll be somewhere that will only fix something properly or not at all. After being on here for a couple of years there's only four companies/people I'd be happy to carry out the work properly, and they are all members on here and will post photos up of the work as its carried out, so I, and everyone else can see what's being done.

Hope that made sense, I've had a few beers now!

 

I'd never criticise anyone's resto work, i like that people are trying to keep this vans on the road. There's diffrent levels of neatness when it comes to work, i try to keep repairs neat and original looking, but i understand that not everyone can do this. There's no point in being too precious about it anway, these are vans worth less than 10k, not million quid ferraris and that's part of what i like about them.

 

The problem with restos is pricing the unknown. If you give a genuine worse case scenario quote, people will run away, so you try to give a best guess quote but often there ends being loads of extra stuff. I did a job a while ago and when i took the fire wall out, both the tank straps were snapped and one was missing, so i had to remake them which takes a few hours once you've welded in new captive bolts etc. i'm with zed, i hate full restos. Until bays appreciate a bit more and people are prepared to spend the right amount, it'll be difficult to make it pay.

 

One thing annoys me is wires and connectors covered in paint and then they wonder why things don't work found mainly on headlights
Mask up those wires people.

 

Yeah electrical connections coverd in paint to me isnt acceptable

It takes less time to bag and tape them before paint than it does trying to clean the paint of afterwards

 

When you've done a full resto have you really restored an old vehicle or built a replica based around a few feet of old steel?

 

Im not a professional, my day job couldnt be further removed from my hobby, my hobby is trying to make the best of a bad deal.. lol. Ive been doing old motors since I was at school and taught myself everything I know ... im totaly self sufficient having spent more on tools and equipment than ive spent on the cars Ive repaired. I say repaired because very few cars are truly restored.. Only the best survivors are restored as the worst survivors have pretty much everything replaced .

A proper restoration would start with the best available body and still end up costing more than the worst basket case .. The effort would be in the detail which takes 10 times longer than doing the repair.

Taking a solid untouched rust free bay window for something like £7000 and "restoring" it properly 100% 100point factory condition in labour alone would be more than the van was worth ..

Striping the van to a bare shell alone would take one man 2 working days min. say 20 hours at £40 an hour thats £800 and we now have a vehicle that doesnt drive and is scattered across the workshop..
Now this is a good solid van so no need for blasting were gonna rip the paint off with the DA 2 boxes of 80 grit DA discs £40 and another 2 days solid getting into the nooks and crannies on the outside, then the door checks, door steps and any wee areas on the floor that might need attention another 20 hours and £800 plus £40 in consumables

now well strip the underside and get the van on a rotiseiry, there goes another day £400

start scraping off the old underseals gunk grit and associated road grime collected over 40 years, Now remember this is a rust free shell so were off the hook with rust repairs but were looking for a factory restoration so well nip around with the sheel on a trailer to the local blaster for quickness £200 to get it to the bklasters and another £400 for the blasting so far weve not got anything but a paintless shell ready to start work on and were already in for £2640

our rust free resto project is now weighing in at the thick edge of £10,000

Now we begin....

this is a factory resto so like the factory we will spare the filler and straighten the dents and dings with the appropriate hand tools, flippers dollys and hammers, the odd bit of heat shrinking and a dose of panel fileing, were lucky, weve got the best unrestored rustfree van we could afford so the perfect bodywork will only take a week ... 40 hours at £40 an hour £1600 but we have a stunning rust free dent free metal finished shell, its still in bare metal and all the running gear is at the blasters for a once over ...

anothe £400 blasting bill but its all looking sweet...

now were in for £12,000

a quick etch prime over the bare steel and an epoxy primer coat upside inside and underside there goes another 2 days £400 plus 5 litres of primer materials @ £20 per ltr £100

so weve got a rust free metal prepped and protection primered body and weve now in for £12500

were the best resto shop so we can rebuild the motor as well so while the body is in primer well start on the engine,

tins off drained and power washed and knocked down, refreshed as stock and buttoned up with freshened tins all neatly detailed but not over the top

there goes another 2 days labour plus parts plus the time to restore the tins ... lets just send them to the powder coaters to save time

400 labour plus parts plus £100 for powder coating lets call it £1000 for a freshened engine, and throw in a new clutch

well have a look at the brakes, bugger it just replace the lot... new drums, shoes, cylinders, park brake cables, adjusters, flexis..

and onto the drive shafts.....

The front beam is solid ( phew) but being from the dry state USA the car was never really subject to any yearly tests so everything south of the bean is toast ,

bearings, bushes, joints, brakes , steering joints etc

lets call it another weeks work to strip detail and replace everything on the beam and button it up ready to bolt in plus other detailing to the g.box casing etc.. there goes another 40 hours labour £1600

weve reached £15k .... the average price of a decent looking van and we still have a stripped and primed shell with a pile of restored running gear ..

weve got more primer, paint , flatting and polishing

replacement rubbers and seals

new glass

tyres

wheels

all the wireing

cables

brake pipes

interior refurb

roof bellows

and refitting that lot to the shell


I dont think another £15k would be out of the way

so were up to the £30,000 mark for the restoration of a good rust free shell

add another 200 plus hours if it needs welding underneath door steps etc plus parts

and a rusty resto could cost in excess of £45000 to restore properly .... which is way out of reach and unrealistic for most of us..

The vans should be fun so a wee bit of licence is acceptable in the repair especially a home repair and it looks to me like enthusiastic folk are more than wiling to get stuck into these old rust dogs...

Its a CRIME that so many folk get there ass handed to them in a sling by so called professional restorers thats not just VW restorers, bad work is rife right across the board.... BUT so are unrealistic expectations.. Some people watch to much TV and think a rot box can be turned around in a fortnight to make a proper gleam machine and all for under £5k its not gonna happen unless that £5k was spent on filler, production paper and the skills of a master sculptor..

I had to laugh at the latest crap programe on the telly, CAR SOS , and the competition to have your car restored for £5000 by a pro restorer... NO CHANCE Thats a bargain price for a pro paintjob LOL...


Is this anything to do with the original thread ... I cant remember I got off on one there LOL...

 

Great post redoxide

 

wow that was some epic



I have done paid work for folk and like ZED its ended up costing me money I build this from scratch for a fella I had 1000 hours in it over the period of a year. I asked him for £7500 and he whined and moaned so dropped it to £5000 parts and labour It worked out at under £3 an hour ... he sold it weeks later for £45000



so I just do my own stuff now..

 

Theres plenty of classics of other marques out there that have had that sort of resto done to them costing far more than the vehicle would ever be worth at resale

The vw bus market hasent followed suit though and i know its hard for the restorers because a lot of bus owners arent willing to pay the appropriate price for the standard they want

However Theres some things that dont take much extra time or effort to do and should be done if the restorer takes a modicum of pride in what he or she is doing

I was reading a post by tiny pie today where she told that the person who restored her bus hadent removed a part sticker of a panel before painting the bus

To me that is totally unacceptable
How was that panel prepped properly at all with the sticker remaining intact?

 

It obviously wasn't prepped at all. 2-pac sticks like * to a blanket. For a while...

 

Spot on red oxide. That's why companies like VW Kampers do restos that start at £25k on rust free imports. You get a full resto, but it comes at a price. And they pick vans that need little or no welding.

 

Exactly

Now at any price band id expect a panel to be prepped before painting so lack of proper prep is not acceptable in any restoration

 

I always laugh when i watch 'wheeler dealers' or whatever it's called. He buys a crappy old MG BGT or similar, then his mate ed china spends 2 weeks in labour and 1k in parts and they sell it for 500 quid more than they bought it for.

 

I say this every week. So ed has lost a fortnight of his life and they have made next to no money. Unless of course he is illegally in the country and mike is making him pay off his fee for smuggling him in to the country in labour.

 

Thats pretty much how I feel about the entire old car hobby.... do your best, be honest when you sell it and sleep at night, then spend the moolah on the next project, making good the short comings that messed with your head and concience the first time around , then sell that and torfture yorself again and again untill your happy with your effort... at that stage it doesnt matter if other folk like what youve achived, if you can step back and be happy to say, Idid that, and put your name on it, thats cool..

 

Ahh, but they get £500 out of the sale of the car and £1000's out of the sale of the programe, So whoever buys the car gets a right result and Mike and Ed have a result too.

Restorers just needs a TV series and you can go in really cheap when pricing the work

 

cheers, yep about 2 years ago.. 16gauge aluminium 1000 hand set rivits I never liked the head thingy but the fella wanted it