Speculation over cladding

Generally all over the world, humans have a disaster, create and enforce a load of rules that prevent disaster until people forget why the rules are there, they relax the rules, have another disaster possibly involving things they did not use before, create a load of rules...

 

We know a lot about the romans from their bathing habits. They made the wet areas out of stone, while everything else was made from wood as it was cheaper. Progress eh. Wrapping 70s towers in flammable material., smart.

what did the romans ever do for us, eh?

 

I think the enquiry will identify what caused the fire and how it spread all the way up the building so quickly and so fierce as to wipe out all of the floors above, clearly what ever containment strategy was designed into the building, failed totally.

I feel its going to be about blame and who were responsible for what happened. Individuals or council or businesses would come under scrutiny and could end up being sued and/or jailed if found to be negligent and not carrying out duty of care over the tenants.

Tenants have stated they made complaints about various safety issues and they claim they were ignored. That would be damning in the enquiry. The fire notices in the building advised occupants to remain in the building in the event of a fire, I think this will also be damning.

Clearly the enquiry is going to be complicated and will take time to get to the bottom of it.

Meanwhile there are the survivors to look after and hopefully recovery of the dead without too much delay.

Good to see The Queen went to meet the survivors and emergency services personnel, she cares about ordinary people. Well done Maam.

 

The best thing we can do for the people of Kensington is pray for rain, the way things are teeing up at the moment I fear it all may be ambushed for political reasons and the rent a mob may pay a visit and wind it all up, lets hope that the terrible fire in the tower block is the only fire in Kensington this weekend.

 

Absolutely. Disgusting how it's become politicised so quickly. Some folk have no shame. Show some respect.

I can't believe it'll be investigated quickly, especially if the building's not stable. Looking at those awful pics, hard to imagine that anyone on the upper floors survived .

 

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the fire spread was due to the cladding. It was clear from some of the first images at the scene that something was horribly amiss. The whole fire strategy for the building was compromised and any fire should have been contained within the area where it started for at least the designed time that the area was rated for. Even if that was compromised and it spread to neighbouring zones then it would have been contained. Either the compartment was breached internally but more likely externally, open window, igniting the cladding..., I'm clearly no expert and I think the truth will become apparent, negligence or just minimum cost for maximum "benefit!"

 

How long do you want to wait? Hillsbro, bloody sunday.......... this could happen again tomorrow. Some nutter will try to burn another one. We had two arson attacks at work on wednesday! Yes, really!

 

When I have to assess enclosures and fire protection for oil tank installations we rate brick/block/concrete walls at 60 min fire rating this is the time we would reasonably expect the enclosure to withstand heat transfer before the stored fuel reached ignition temperature.

Seeing as a high rise flat is essentially a concrete box, just like the ones I specify for internal tank installs I find it totally implausible that the fire could spread upwards through 20 of these one hour rated boxes and laterally across the whole block in the reported 15 mins. The only way this wasn't a survivable event for most of the people in this block can only be because of the spread up the outside of the building.

 

Sounds like a lot of people I've met through life

 

Totally agree

 

Unfortunately it takes something like this and say, the kings cross fire to bring about reform and changes for the better ..
There are so many factors in this whole disaster that will need addressing :

Just for starters...
The cause if the initial fire
How it was able to spread so rapidly
The effectiveness of the fire alarm system
The 'stay put' policy
Only one fire escape route

 

What will they do to the thousands of familes who live in similarly constructed blocks? I'll bet they are not very happy just now.

 

Their tenements burnt quite readily.

 

I dont like the fact that it seems a tower block with one staircase is seen as "safe" and that tightening regulations under a Conservative government was seen as "discouraging building"

And that the fire brigade cant reach above 30 metres from outside.

I hope that there is a positive outcome from this for all the people living in similar risky locations. And as this seems to be the second time a horror like this has happened perhaps something will change.

 

We did a few timber frame blocks at sport city Manchester.
When they were occupied one of the flats set on fire (consumer unit fault).
The fire only affected a small section of the building and ended up being repaired.
I was under investigation as we erected the timber frame.
They tried saying the fire stopping was not fitted properly but we had the sign off sheets for every area and the proof was the building was not a total loss with the fire contained to a relatively small area.
That investigation lasted for about 2 years so expect it to rumble on for quite some time.

 

What is it with people wanting to wait for all the facts every time something significant happens?

It's this submissive/apathetic mentality that the establishment wants to maintain, so that the initial anger recedes and they then hide behind a Public Inquiry for years and years until people have forgotten the significance or have died waiting for justice.

Look how long the Hillsborough Inquests process took, if it wasn't for the scouse determination that would have been brushed under the carpet as well.

The people affected by the fire have lost everything, but they didn't have much to start with. Its refreshing to see that they've got the gonnads to storm the Council offices (that theoretically belong to the people anyway) and shock the mainly white, middle class, council officers/executives into action.

What do the rest of us do when we feel wronged? Huff and puff a bit, then carry on, convincing ourselves that resistance is futile.

 

Do your oil tank enclosures have upvc windows that will melt and allow smoke and fire to funnel inside past the reveals?

Ever think why window installers use all those lengths of upvc capping? It's to create a cosmetic finish over the abomination underneath, typically large quantities of mastic, sealant and expanding foam bridging huge gaps and loose brick/blockwork damaged when taking the old windows out.

The cladding installation is the obvious, but the windows spec and installation standards will also be looked at.

 

Or lets just sit on our back sides and let the Public Inquiry take 10 years, but I'm guessing that you haven't been directly affected so are not as desperate as those people demanding answers, even if that means banding about rumour and speculation so that the authorities are then forced to respond to it.

Have you heard the account of the woman on the train that saw loads of body bags lying outside the block, yet the authorities were still saying only six fatalities, what conceivable reasion is there for not declaring exactly how many deaths they already knew of, even if it was just from counting the body bags?