If places are open- people will go to them. If they are shut people won’t go to them. if they are shut earlier, fewer people will go to them. If fewer people go to them, there is less opportunity for the virus to be transmitted. Yes, disease is unprecedented.However, Repeated calls from the scientific community to shut things down were heeded by the government only after many weeks. Maybe following the science requires listening to the science and acting on the science.
and when they did loads moaned the economy would crash so they better open it all up quick , unfortunately it’s not as simple as one or the other , it’s a bit of each and without trying it there’s no way to know the outcomes, then act upon it , then more information comes in, better idea of outcomes, change tactic, OMG they are U turning
Its always interesting how when discussing government policy, incompetency or pure corruption, people turn on those questioning it. My degrees are in Electronics. The WHO advised countries to lock borders. Those that did, Australia, New Zealand etc are back to some semblance of normality....and have death rates in 3 or 4 figures. This government chose to lock borders 371 days after that initial WHO guidance...and are still actually doing it in words not deeds. What qualification do I need that makes me conclude that they ballsed this up? And let me riddle you this.... What country has 126 million people (nearly twice that of the UK), is a democracy (so didn’t have China like state imposed lockdown), is an island (same as the UK), is a modern world power (as opposed to a sleepy backwater), has a population density per square kilometre of 347 compared to 275 for the UK (relevant for a disease spread by proximity). You’d imagine that such a country would be closing rapidly in on 100,000 deaths just as we are, given all that. So we are saying it’s Japan’s lack of a rave culture is why the UK had more deaths since LAST SUNDAY than they have had (4997) since this all started? Yesterday, the UK had more deaths than New Zealand by 12.20am, by early afternoon we’d beaten Australia’s total for a year. In one day. But let’s not be angry or hacked off, let’s claim that none of this is down to government. Meanwhile in other news... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...ord-Ashcroft-given-Covid-19-testing-role.html
The reason I posted this was to point out she’s a lot more than a pretty face. Are you saying what she posted in that twitter feed is incorrect? Which bits has she actually said are wrong exactly?
You mean the tory press and politicians telling people that they would collapse the economy if they didn’t go back to the office? That propaganda came from the top down chief. Many many companies (including Rishi Sunacks millionaire wife’s) had their workers furloughed, were given grants and/or were awarded massive loans from the treasury, despite being owned by billionaires. The major job losses were for the poor sods that were and remain to be totally ignored by such schemes, they are the ones that lost everything.
you appear to have a single sided point of view so research to support it, try looking from the other side , then both sides , then outwards from the middle ,we aren’t finished with this , part way through statistical data is not telling the full story. surely all the people arriving in this country must have arrived from another country, but majority of borders were closed folks coming out and saying told ya so after the fact is just sillyness, where’s all the folks that must have had similar view opinions? Someone and not 1 person is advising the government and all the others and they will all be interacting with each other on a daily basis. But not a single well done , seems fishy to me. where is all the “trustworthy” data coming from , how come it’s more trustworthy and more correct than the “incorrect, other data”?
The dine out/eat out voucher scheme was a government sponsored scheme! Is your memory shot? This government spent hundreds of millions of pounds encouraging people to return to pubs etc!!!
But we haven’t learnt that delaying restrictions makes the numbers worse. The same mistake is repeated. The economic impact of lockdown is tempered by reducing deaths, and returning to normality quicker. That has not been learnt. They keep delaying trying to keep stuff open to keep the economy going which in turn makes the inevitable lockdown longer and the return to normal economic conditions delayed further. Yes U turns are acceptable when the evidence changes but stop repeating the same mistakes over and over and over.
I didn’t say people didn’t want to come out of lockdown. I believe ours was the only government in the world that spent five hundred million pounds encouraging them. Would people have thronged back to those social places of gathering in such numbers had they not been encouraged? It was called ‘dine out to help out’....it was deliberately placed as you would be saving your local, it was targeted as such. But let’s blame the people.
Old boy Johnson lobbing his son to open pubs just like when he told him he would still be going, against advice, before the first lockdown. Out of interest, how many MP's have had covid or had to self isolate due to covid? Do as I say springs to mind.
The main problem is the returning to reality quicker, quicker than what? 5 years ,20? Who knows , there’s no answer, if we locked down for 5 years and it was all gone who would accept it as a solution? So is the problem lockdown, the number of deaths or the economy? oh or the government? The economic aren’t tempered by reducing deaths they are tempered by the decision of what amount of money is worth what amount of deaths. the government could close the country for 5 years , nobody goes to work out the door , buys a tv new pair of shoes etc, everyone gets food delivered by the military in hazmat suits sorted! however, folks don’t want to pay for it , ok let’s modulate it, bit of work , bit of new shoes, some folks die but it’s ok cos I didn’t know them , hmm a friend of a friends uncle died , perhaps we should not have opened up quite so much , let’s open up a little less. Now some folks are dying that I do know , we should have locked down a month ago. Oh god how’s long is THIS lockdown going to be for , government bad. It’s comical
You mean I have a theory, that I then research to prove it? Isn't that is the very basis of scientific thought? My sources of data for this thread where I quote data are WHO, the ONS, John Hopkins and the Daily Mail. I can’t find anywhere where it says 1820 didn’t die, that we locked borders over a year ago when advised to by the WHO, that we didn’t spend half a billion quid and beer vouchers, that the tory party awarded another no competition Covid contract to one of their donors. I’ve done my due diligence on both sides of the argument, I can’t find contrary data. The brow beating of people to return to the office was discussed on this site, I discussed it’s ‘merits’ it back then, same as the vaccination program a couple of weeks ago....this isn’t all after the event flag waving and it does us all a disservice to claim it us Government policies have led us down this road, as have a tiny minority of human beings acting like human beings. Agreed. It’s only one of those two groups that are paid to lead, paid to be scientific and make good decisions that benefit us all. Paid to run the show. The others are tiny minorities, blown up by the press to ensure we tear each other apart as a distraction.
So every death was 100% avoidable? Government Bad ? Still seems like a one side no diligence point of view you must have a fool proof solution, could you just lay it out , email Boris, job jobbed
A proper lockdown may have gone someway to sorting it out, rather than the poor excuse of a lockdown that we keep having. The only way I know we are in one is I can't go in to have a breakfast on a Friday or visit the pub after a long week at work. Traffic this week is close to getting back to normal levels. Black dog starting to creep in tho, with going to work in the dark coming home in the dark and constantly getting wet in Manchester.
Come now my friend, we both know I didn’t say that, and had I it’s a grade 1A dong thing to say. Professor Alice Roberts (she not just of the pretty face) said something I agree with. I’ve merely evidenced why I support her statement. I do believe that this current government has let its own supporters and advocates down, and I believe history will prove this (google how many Tory supporting ltd companies that were awarded massive PPE contracts are now becoming unlimited so that they can hide their annual returns.....despite this being against governments own frameworks acceptance criteria). Marvel at how when this is all over, they will target public sector procurement as being inefficient so that they can do more shady deals by stripping out more controls and transparency. What government refuses to share on what it spends it’s citizens money? It’s a litany if blocked FOI requests, all pretty unjustified. I believe they are asset stripping for all they are worth, and most of that activity has driven ‘business policy’ that’s killing people. I can’t find anything to the contrary. We should all be angry about this.
Have you seen on the news there’s a vaccine that’s been rolled out? It’s not comical nor is there an indeterminate timeline to this and the lockdowns we endure. We’ll all pay for this- some with their lives, jobs, homes and the rest with taxation. Failure to see the failure we have made of this....words fail me.
but again with the Tory , this government blah blah , one sided ,government Bad ? so you’re suggesting none of “the people “ agree with the government, the government ( only the tories obviously) are opening and closing at a whim for the benefit of their own pockets . ok so why pay furlough , anyone who doesn’t get furlough gets low income support, tax credits etc. The value of the pound which effected by the economy ( that “the government “ are manipulating for their benefit) , but I spend my pounds too, is my pound a special one that’s more effected by the economy that “the governments “ pounds are safe from ? The economy is much more than money , there are plenty who make are plenty who don’t at ALL levels. So all government ( their friends family etc) are also immune to the spread of corona ( well they would be because it’s made up to make money) but also they will happily let any number of people die because they aren’t “the government “ , Just to make a few quid ?
