Loss of power and over heating after 5 miles..update - bad news this afternoon

Please help. Sorry, long story.

I've only had my 1977 2.0 litre Devon Eurovette (automatic gearbox) for 2 months, and so new to this VW passion. I hunted for 2 years for this bus and now wish I bought a T25 .......lol.....not really. Yes it has to be an auto. I'm in a wheelchair and use hand controls.

The story so far, instantly I noticed the smell of petrol, notice the filler neck had perished. So fearful of fire, I had the engine, gearbox and fuel tank out and all rubber parts and lines renewed, I also had all the engine seals and mounts replaced at the same time (all had perished). The garage (VW specialist) had problems sourcing a new torque converter seal, then stopping the oil leaking at this join. The engine (with auto gearbox stays attached, not as easy as manuals) came out 3 times, the leak was resolved in the end by putting 2 seals in instead of 1. The engine then only fired on 3 cylinders, tappets adjusted by hand, issue resolved. (also, new alternator, fuel sender, some electrics 240v with new leisure battery, engine bay welded and painted)

When I got the bus back, I drove it for 5 miles.........it slowed, max speed 15mph, would not go up small hill. Opening engine bay, it was very hot and some oil smoke. I let it cool, then drove home.

Back to garage, timing redone, cylinder compressions 110 average, adjusted springs on flaps. Problem has not gone away. Garage can't work it out.

So......it runs perfect......drives fine, until oil is is up to temperature, then power loss and over heating, all with in 5 miles, or instantly if I try and go up a hill. When it over heats, it then starts fine and runs spot on.

Thinking of changing Oil pressure switch and pump, garage are not convinced this will work………………any suggestions gratefully received.

 

sounds to me like your garage has got something set up wrong... could be running lean on full throttle, they could have the timing wrong as it's an auto... Also changing the oil pressure switch, and the oil pump is going to be a waste of time...

are you getting into top (3rd) gear while driving?

How familiar is your garage with type 4 autos?

Also as an fyi, the engine can come out separate to the box... you just have to know what you're doing!!

I'm sure ricky will be along at some point, as he has an auto

 

I wonder if the problem is with the auto box? Although not as extreme I started to notice my engine oil would get very hot going up long steep inclines.

The problem was not the engine but the transmission not pulling properly as the fluid got low as it was leaking, the same effect as a slipping clutch. Eventually the box failed altogether and had to be serviced.

First thing to check though is whether your garage has topped up the ATF correctly.

 

It's changing up to to 3rd gear, but driving with hand controls you can't get kick down. Due to leverage etc etc, so I manually select 2rd when going up hills.

Yes the garage say they refilled the Auto box oil. I've notice no leaks from the auto box. The only oil leaks are from the engine when it over heats........

 

Are the hand controls set up correctly,my dad had a the same problem on a auto ford transit,it wouldn't kick down etc.
Could they be disconnected to try it without

 

Hi

The hand controls are as good as I'm going to be able to get them, its just the petal needs such a hard push to get kick down, being an old bus. Kick down is easy with the weight of a foot and a leg, but with handcontrols the linkage does not give a firm enough push.

 

Can you tell if it's pulling OK when you're going uphill? I had the sensation that on a long incline it was revving hard but not making much forward progress.

 

the kickdown is hard enough with foot controls in my opinion, being a 3 speed means it's thrash or dawdle sometimes, ignoring the gear change for now in auto mode does it overheat if just in 2nd uphill? are we getting confused with the box thing here? if your engine is overheating to the extreme it leaks oil when hot and slows down it sounds to me like it's ready to sieze, i wouldn't be listening to your garage anymore, find someone who knows engines.... when you say lack of power, is it losing revs or does it seem the engine is getting 'tight' have you tried manually changing down when it's 'hot' just so we know if it is a box problem or engine or both.

 

i am not too familiar with this auto set up, so presuming its similar to other autos i would look at the oil level first. i presume the torque converter is oil filled? has this been checked?
if it is an auto box problem then you may need to refer it to someone else that has the skills to repair it

 

the autobox is a borg warner one pretty bomb proof, mine is half shafted but keeps going, it's rattling and chirping from the torque converter plate and it clonks from drive to reverse but fingers crossed it keeps working! i'm not an expert by any means but i can't see how a gearbox makes an engine overheat? i 'think' the timing is slightly different on an auto but i might have imagined that? i probably did actually as i'm sure we timed mine as normal when we did it at techenders ( dubster did it and he has a clonky auto too ) PIE off here knows his autos though so hopefully he may pop up, hopefully someone can help although i would be using process of elimination first, get someone to drive it manually in 2 and not D and see if it still plays up, i just fail to see how a box makes an engine hot?

 

It seems to change fine when it's hot and cold, I don't think it's the Autobox. Going up hills boils the oil quicker.

When I first got the bus back, drove it 5 miles...then it over heated.....back to garage.

They adjusted the timing.

Drove it around for 10 miles it was OK......couple of days later, drove on the flat for 4 miles, ok, then went up a long hill....over heated again.
(it was 21 deg that day)
Then I let it cool for 20mins, drove again for 5 miles, it then over heated again. Rang the RAC, low loader back to garage.

They re did the timing, and adjusted the tappets. Last drove it at the weekend, drove 12miles, at that point the power starts to go, 35mph max. All on the flat, I can just feel generally she won't like going up a hill, so I've not risked it. A friend of a friend drove it (he's had many Bays) he felt it lacked power, even from cold. (he's had 2 litres, but not autos)

Thats the history so far..................lol

 

Quick question - appreciate you might not have driven it much before you took it to a garage - but how did it drive before you had the work done? I take it you live further than 5 miles from the seller, so who drove it over and how did it go?

Also - I'm surprised that the garage seemingly can't be arsed to take it for a test drive before giving it back to you each time - any reason why they wont?

Seems strange they are happy to 'fix' something they don't pin point - sure a test drive would help eliminate stuff.

One of the responses here mentions you can separate the box and engine if you know what you are doing - seems a coincidence that they are using two seals between components - sounds like things aren't aligning properly maybe.

Finally - you have checked the brakes aren't binding haven't you - on an auto would that be wack it in neutral and see if it roles - binding brakes can kill an engine and it's harder to spot on an auto (from my limited experience)

 

Many other possibilities if you can eliminate the box. Do you get good engine braking going back down hill BTW? This is a symptom I'd rather not repeat (140ºC oil going up and boiling brakes going down - in the Pyrenees).

The other one that's got me is the points closing up.

 

The 2 seal idea came from me. I saw it on a USA forum. I'm not sure if it was the torque converter seal or the lay shaft seal, suppliers kept calling it differing things. Description: Black hard rubber, 60mm diameter, 8mm deep, 6mm wide, with inset on one face with a spring on the inside. Garage said it was just a seal, no friction or turning shaft through it, so putting 2 in was a good idea. I'll ask the garage precisely where it went.

Yes should of test drove it for longer.....etc etc.

 

if it's not the gearbox then do as moons says and check the brakes are not binding, is all the cooling tinware fitted? is the fanbelt tight enough - is the fan actually working...any missing fins on it? unfortunately without seeing the problem directly we are all guessing here, the trouble is, it seems even you don't know if it's ran properly ever as you only did a short drive when you got it? or am i reading that wrong? can you clarify you drove it for ages before it had all the work done? try to give us clear information, the fitting of leisure batteries and such like blahblah doesn't matter here let's get bcak to basics.

 

You recently referred to your garage as VW specialists. That's probably were the problem lies. Most who call themselves specialists or experts are in fact nothing of the sort. In my lifetime I've only ever met one true expert who knew these buses back to front. Funny, he never called himself a specialist or expert. Unfortunately, he now lives 12000 mile away.

 

Just a thought, you said every time the timeing has been reset its ok for a few miles again? so dodgy points? get an electronic distributer (Accuspark etc) and see if helps?