Another Type 4 1800 AP Engine Project (going 1911cc now 1971cc now 1992cc finally 2056cc)

Discussion in 'Restorations' started by Deefer66, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Edit:

    Missed a bit so added in here..

    Double edit:

    Took it out again as with no flywheel on crank movement a bit worryingly noisy against drive gear.. will re-install later when end float has been set.

    Distributor Drive Gear

    Just after inserting cam, in the previous post, keeping gears meshed lift no 1 rod up to TDC position.
    This should be firing No1 TDC check cam lobes for being intake and exhaust closed on No1 if you like, should be both pointing away, one a bit up, one a bit down kind of 8 and 10 o clock... you're now ready to fit drive gear

    Distributor drive gear should have small spring and a thick washer with three depressions in it on each side

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    Goes together like this

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    Push together with the distributor.. alignment groove offset so only fits one way.

    Push into distributor hole, my washer was a bit magnetized so stayed put but might need a bit of oil to hold in place.
    Might need a giggle of the crank to get the drive to mate with gear inside properly

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    The distributor should stay clamped in place from now on while messing about with engine as gear /drive can fall out /jump alignment/get mashed. I'm using an old damaged on in case Mr Clumsy pays a visit...

    If distributor comes out, like for this picture don't spin engine too much - it should have the drive slot somewhere about here when firing No. 1..

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    If you're lucky, the rotor arm will be pointing to No1 cylinder. (although I don't think it actually matters as long as you know where the rotor arm is pointing when at firing no 1 and remember it!


    Quick test fit to cheer me along..

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    I'tll all be apart again to seal up properly was just making sure everything still moves if its together... lunchtime updates over...
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  2. Backlash isn’t particularly important, as long as the gears aren’t scored it will pump but end float, if excessive, will reduce pump capacity. I don’t know what Bentley says but I keep the end float to 0.002” or 0.003” in old money.

    It’s better to fill the pump with petroleum jelly to help priming, it dissolves in the oil and can’t block oilways like grease. And if the engine is completely dry, I remove the plugs, rocker gear and pushrods and spin the engine on the starter motor until the oil pressure builds up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  3. End float was good, though I'd used vaseline last time, couldnt think why! Only a light sear of grease on the cogs to help seal but might go back in there and re do just in case.

    Picture repairs are tonight's job while watching swimming!..

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  4. Remove the grease and fill it with petroleum jelly, no air gaps. And once the pump is installed don’t turn the engine by hand, the pump needs some speed to lift the oil from the sump.
    :thumbsup:
     
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  5. Heat Exchangers

    There was a bit of blow past the head/exchanger and plenty of oil/soot so had a look at allignment while it's easier to look at properly

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    Replacement studs must have been a minor two out as fitting was v tight and also found this edge would sometimes catch.

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    Wouldn't fit in the vice to squeeze together so a good old fashioned 'tap' with a 3lb lump adjusted to fit just right.

    Then cleaned the ends and felt tipped..

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    Put a file across both ports to keep level

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    And tidied up lugs to make sure there was still clearance to mate at the ends and not catch a lug on the head first

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  6. CHT Gauge Sensor Cylinder Head Mod


    Took a mutlitool and a Dremel to the head to make a small mod to fit the under plug sensor ring in a bit easier..

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    Did 2 and 3 and then did them all just in case..

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    Don't think i'll glue them in just yet ... should hold in place when in use even with plugs coming in and out.


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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  7. Cylinder Heads

    When this started as a quick “top end refresh” due to noise and smoke from the back end I pulled the heads to find one a 2ltr and one an 1800..

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    Sourced another 1800 021.101.371 from the USA on ebay listed as a “1700 914 head”.. £83 result... well it was when it turned up in ok condition with no cracks..

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    Gave it a bead blast, checked valve guides and like the one I had already the exhaust guides were good but inlet guides needed a bit of work..

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    so both went off to be k lined, and have mating face skimmed to reduce combustion chamber and help get a good seal, seats were given a quick spin while there to make sure they were clean on the exhaust and to align with new k-liner on the inlet.

    Quick check of chamber size found them to be smaller than expected..


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    so got to work with a grinding tool to make them more 914 shaped.. and got them back up to size that made the compression ratio more workable.

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    Also needed to take a bit of the head face off to make sure there was clearance between Barrer shoulder and head and a gap for air to get to fins


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    Fitted new valves.. bit of red rubber grease (wiped off afterwards) to hold the collets in place as it's sticky..HD springs and Chromoly retainers/collets from aircooled.net as the cam has a smidge more lift than stock.. not totally convinced it's required in a bus with revs staying low.. but just in case...

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    Couple of new studs to replace missing/ mangled threads and all done...


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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  8. Just out of interest where did you buy the valves? I bought sodium filled exhaust valves from Ahnendorp B.A.S. in Germany and Martensitic stainless-steel inlet valves direct from Intervalves Technologies in Switzerland.
     
  9. Excuse my ignorance, but what is " k lined"?
    Ta
    Andy
     
  10. Deefer66 likes this.
  11. Just stock AW engine ones from CoolairVW 41mm inlet and 34mm exhausts

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  12. Local machine shop do this and cost about the same as me going through the whole pulling old guides cooking heads and installing new then asking them to cut seats to match...

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  13. Piston Rings and Fitting Piston

    Following on from other threads thought I'd update on pistion rings here...

    Originally started this job a while ago


    but when pistons were a tight fit into cylinder when putting the rings in to check thought I'd check machined size and they were almost tolerance fit so gave them a hone and came back..

    Fitted a ring into cylinder. Pushed in by a piston to a depth of second ring to get it square.
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    Checked gaps with feelers gauge AA said ..



    And now the cylinders are the right size they all pretty much were 0.018" top and 0.015" second apart from the one I started to adjust which now has two rings at 0.018"

    Side clearance was 0.001" to a tight 0.0015", which I'm told is ok but have asked for confirmation as it doesn't seem to be out there..

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    VW Stock pistons have a bit more

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    Fitted them in a ring compressor

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    Tapped them home gently with the end of hammer. Aparently preferred end is the top to avoid sharp edges but I find carefully via the other end easier as its a bit wider at the skirt and you can poke rings if required and see then going in

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    Don't forget the pin and circlip when putting them in properly. ( I didn't need to yet as was coming apart again)

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    And I double-checked finished deck height with spacer installed...

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    That's just making sure it's at TDC in pic.

    It was actually measured at 1.3mm. Initial measurements and the planned 0.01" spacer was worked out at 1.4mm so either the spacer has compressed or it's all settled down a bit but within a good range of 1mm to 1.5mm to keep "squish" and avoid valves so happy with that.

    So now to take it all apart again and re clean - ready to seal...



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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  14. Oh yes it is - said in the best panto voice.
     
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  15. Case Closed

    Decided things were close enough to plan to seal up the case.

    Case faces cleaned with carb cleaner..

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    So were all the nuts and bolts sealing faces and washers..

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    Cam all oiled up with Webcams break in oil... bearings oiled with a mix of assembly oil, engine oil and break-in oil additive.

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    And didnt forget to find the small oil ring seal in the bag of pushed tune seals.. and permatex it up and fit in the case half.

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    Fit the big six bolts with Curil K2 (other case sealants are available)..on the washers , both sides.. and fit the case spaces to hold in place

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    Fit the cam plug paint up all the mating faces with K2 sorry phone camera died

    Balance the two con rods pointing up along the bolts and drop the half on.

    ** Fit the oil pick up bolt now, tighten later but get it started now while pick up is still a bit loose**

    Tighten up the six to 16ftlb , I do middle two first then outside ones then go round again up to 25ftlb.

    ...and don't forget the stud at the bottom right of cylinder No4 bu the push rod tube hole that comes from by the cam bearing... or that cheeky one hiding on the behind the flywheel

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    Some say start at one end and work your way across and go up to 30ftlb to make sure, but I'll stick with VW's numbers for now.

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    Then go around the outside missing out the oil pump ones until that is installed later. (I'm waiting until rocker gear is on so I don't pump vaseline out of pump - once I take it apart and clean out the grease that might be insoluble in oil and replace with vaseline).

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    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  16. Setting End Float

    I asked the question in Mech Tech

    End Play ( crank end float)

    Didn’t seem to be any compelling arguments to stop you from setting end play as soon as the case is together. Other sites argue it should be fully built, some say with little to get in the way of crank movement. I can’t see anything other than main bearings really affecting the movement so went ahead and tested for it half way through putting barrels and pistons on so I could get some shims ordered in time for the weekend if needed, they’re all on there in photos to stop anything falling in the case now its shut. Let’s face it if something might be needed chances are it will be….

    Lifted the short motor off the stand to get at the flywheel end, careful its getting heavy now.

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    I seem to remember not having to do this with the purpose built type 4 yoke I had last time

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    Fitted two clean shims and flywheel, torqued up all the bolts, the odd bolts will be swapped for the right ones when they re-surface in the next tidy up..

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    Tested for end play with a magnetic dial gauge fixed to flywheel measuring movement relative to case. I found pushing the fan back into the case, zeroing the dial and then pulling the fan back out the easiest, keeping an eye making sure there was no rotation of crank in the measurement.

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    Did it at a few places around the crank rotation to make sure there were no tight spots. Recorded the 4 quarter points at an average on 0.52mm.

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    Aiming for a mid spec 0.004” or 0.1mm play, as Bentley says:

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    Leaves last spacer needing to be 0.42mm - This is not an easy shim to find!

    Took apart the flywheel off, cleaned and measured the existing shims together at 0.0262.” and 0.0131” each (my micrometre’s are imperial – they were cheaper for the 0.0001” accuracy!..

    So that’s 0.665mm in metric as that's how they sell them. Adding the float I measured with these in gave me a total float with no shims 1.185mm.
    Taking off the target float of 0.1mm gives me a required shim total of 1.085mm – so I ordered three 0.36 shims = 1.08mm (and a 0.38mm just in case things change next time I measure so with the old ones I’ll have a range to play with.






    Sent from the depths of a garage…
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  17. awesome!

    Coming along nicely :)
     
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  18. That flywheel needs to be re-surfaced, or replaced.
     
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  19. I was wondering...... it'll be re-surfacing if anything.

    In accordance with Restoration Thread Guidlines :)

    Over to Mech Tech for a discussion

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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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