Another Type 4 1800 AP Engine Project (going 1911cc now 1971cc now 1992cc finally 2056cc)

Discussion in 'Restorations' started by Deefer66, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Barrels and Pistons Onto Case

    So with the case all glued up and shims ordered went back to fit the cylinders again properly.

    Probably easier to clean and apply sealant on the barrels before they go on , but I wanted to stop part way through to mark off a true TDC ( I'll do this next) on the fan for transferring to the flywheel ( when it comes back) to transfer back to the fan when the fan housing goes back on as all the numbers have rubbed off the metal timing scale!

    Cleaned off case mating face on case

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    I like to do cylinders nearest the pulley first putting pins in from flywheel end so 4,3,2,1 or 2,1 4, 3 . Oil cooler mount gets in the way of pin going from pulley end and it's easier to do them all the same so have an order so I dont forget something.

    And I like to put pistons in the cylinder off the engine as head studs get in my way., but they can go on on the engine.

    Clean and oil small end bearing and pin then test fit the pin into small end bearing.

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    Fit a circlip into pulley side of piston, oil the hole the pin fits in and push the pin into flywheel side of the piston pushing though enough to catch into small end bearing and leaving enough of a gap for the small end to fit through..

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    **Fit the cylinder spacer onto the bottom of the cylinder**

    Piston and cylinder then offered up to con rod and catch the pin in the small end bearing. Hopefully a good push should send the pin through with a bit of a wiggle to get the right alignment. If it's a bit stiff I use the extension from a 1/2" socket set as a drift... perfect fit

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    Then circlip into the end

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    Push the cylinder home, stick a socket and a nut over a short stud to stop it moving about while you get the others done and move on to the next...

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    Do it all over again

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    Spin the case over and repeat on other side, I'll pull them all out a bit , clean and apply sealant when the heads are going on.



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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  2. True Top Dead Centre (TDC)

    As I don't have any numbers on my timing scale and to make setting timing more accurate I thought I'd better find TDC and mark it somewhere useful.


    So set up dial gauge with piston near TDC.

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    When piston is at TDC it is moving very slowly and can appear to stop for a few degrees of crank turn. So if you go a mm (or a half if you like) of piston travel each side of TDC using the dial gauge as the piston is always moving at this point you can mark off the flywheel or fan or both at these points, I used the case split ad a reference, and half way between is exactly TDC. 1mm of piston travel each way is about 48mm of fan.

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    I cut a mark into the fan and repainted where the sticker pulled the paint off..

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    I'll transfer it to the flywheel later in case I cant see it when fan housing is back on.

    EDIT:

    Just been back in for more!

    Thought 7.5 and 30 Before TDC might be useful. Measured all the way around the fan as 705mm so each degree is 1.958mm.

    7.5 deg is 14.7mm, 30 deg is 58.8mm around the perimeter if the fan. So made up a template.. the other TDC is at 180 deg or half way round.. 352.5mm

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    And transfered to back of fan

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    Hopefully get those over as useful dots onto the scale when it goes back on

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
    Mark Darby and 77 Westy like this.
  3. liking this a lot
     
    Deefer66 likes this.
  4. Better get a move on.. spiders are taking over possession...
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  5. Cylinder Head Install

    Cleaned up all the fixing hardware with a wipe on oiled 240 grit

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    Then cleaned off oil with carb cleaner. Gave the case, cylinder bottoms and spacer shims a wipe over with Carb cleaner then coated with Curil T.


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    Gave the tops of cylinders and head combustion chambers a final wipe down. Cleaned washer recesses under the rocker covers with csrb cleaner and applied Curil T .

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    Pushed cylinders into place popped the head on put washers and nuts on applied more curil to nuts going under rocker cover.

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    Tightened up as Bentley in two stages 11ftlb then 23 ftlb

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    Repeat on other side

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    Must remember to put on that deflector plate before push rods go on..

    Modded rocker gear next..

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    NOTE : They're the wrong oil filled bushes to use for solid spacers.. you need 2026 -15

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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    Mark Darby, 77 Westy and MorkC68 like this.
  6. Same here!
     
    Deefer66 likes this.
  7. Newbie here again. With respect to tightening the heads down on a rebuild, (as opposed to one head off for a repair) Is there a squence to tighten from head to head to equal the load and stresses or just tighten one head at a time and then the opposite side.
     
  8. Some say yes but as the studs don't go all the way through don't see why it would need to be. One side at a time is fine in my book

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  9. Thank you, is that the Bentley "Book"? :rolleyes:
     
    Deefer66 likes this.
  10. Some Ancillaries

    Fitted the oil strainer and sump plug... two paper or more like card a few mm thick gaskets each side of the stainer.

    Sump plug with a new copper washer/sealing ring

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    **Stainer Nut.. No more than 9ftlb..or new case could be required.. search Type 4 Syndrome **

    Fitted a new BoatyardBuses taco oil temp sender plate (can't find on their website but there's a link to their eBay shop which has them) in place of the "inspection" cover. Not sure what to inspect in there ever ?

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    Use the big thick o ring seal, I put a bit is Curil on it too..

    Worth noting this takes an M14 sender. They do also have an M10 version but I missed that!.

    I can only find M10 senders that say they are to 170°C to match my Audi gauge. Most don't say or are 150°C senders if they're M14 so I'm getting a reducer to fit my Lucas sender from Brickwerks.

    This one

    But this might also work

    Then fitter oil filter plate

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    Gave that sealant a paint with a brush to thin it out a bit.

    Fitted fuel pump blanking plate, you only need one of those gaskets if there's no spacer block.

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    Careful tightening this too threads easily stripped.

    And finally, for now, the oil pressure relief piston, spring, gasket and plug in that order (piston flat side first)

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    Again clean up all the sealing edges before they go in.. aluminium sealing ring on this one, I put some Curil on it too before tightening with a bolster or chisel.

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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
    lhu1281 likes this.
  11. Another lunchtime another update!...

    Rocker Gear Modification

    Swivel Foot Adjusters

    We did this on the last build and it wasn’t too painful so doing it again.

    Porche thought it was a good idea but VW probably thought it was too expensive for mass production. 8mm swivel feet are easy to come by, 10mm not so common, you can buy Porche ones at about £30 each or a set of 8 from Thorsten at TP Technologie for €55 plus delivery

    There’s a few discussions on them, mostly around valve geometry on Samba and Shoptalk Type 4, but personally I can’t see how geometry is affected too much with adjusters operating in essentially the same place if you modify the arms a little to allow full adjustment of the feet for tappet gaps.

    With no modification I think you need to lift the rocker gear by a couple of mm and go through the whole custom push rod route. I’ll add here they’re not recommended on hydraulic lifters as the constant pressure doesn’t allow oil into the ball foot for lubrication.

    The rocker mod is a quick grind to remove about 1.5mm

    Standard Rocker

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    Ground and sanded and “countersunk” (all on the face closest to the valve) to allow movement.

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    Should end up a few threads below oil hole..

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    Good to go.

    Solid Spacers

    Stock rockers come with spings to keep everything in line. For peace of mind or when there’s a bit more pressure on them, soild spaces appear to be popular. Springs don’t often break but have been known to - @mikedjames I think…


    You can go to the USA to try and find a solid spacer kit, but I’m going down the homemade version again.
    As a starting point, the stock spring hold the washers around 16.6mm apart

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    I’m going for oil filled bronze bushes 20mm ID 26mm OD and 15mm long “AM.2026-15.PL” from Simply Bearings with a selection of 0,5mm, 0.3mm and 0,1mm steel shims from Caleb Components to make up the difference, stock washers on there for springs are about 1mm.

    Bronze is quite soft compared to steel but the spacer washers should protect it a bit from wear, I can’t feel any movement on the 5 year old ones in the tintop anyway.
    So pack each side of the bush out with shims and re-create the 16.6mm

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    Pop on the head, (no lock nuts on adjusters yet, in case you’re looking hard),

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    Check horizontal alignment of adjuster onto valve stem,

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    ...adjust with shims as necessary and pack out the gaps if required to keep it all in place. I leave enough play for a 0.1mm feeler overall.

    I’ll do a geometry “lite” version of check to make sure that the adjuster and valve stem are parallel at half lift when I install them properly later.





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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  12. Rocker Gear Install Prep


    After a quick check on fit (see last post), and with the arrival of correct 15mm bushes, moved on to installing rocker gear.


    Before the go on need to get pushrod tubes in, and before they go in need to get cam followers in and the bottom deflector tins on.


    Deflector Tin

    This needs to go on before tubes go in, Mrs Deefer kindly cleaned and painted all my tinware to freshen up.

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    The one screw into the head is the only M5 in all the tinware, this one needed re-tapping to clear out the crud.

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    Cam Followers

    As its a new cam, general recommendation if to install new followers not much in it to get Webcam ones with the oiling hole (it's very small!) as cam was coming from Aircooled.net anyway. See end of Cam Install post for details....


    Cleansed and blew through to make sure holes were clear oiled up the sides with my zinc/oil/assembly lube mix and pasted the end with Webcams startup lube.

    If you've got hydraulic lifters they need soaking in oil to fill them first, probably best go search out a full procedure on that somewhere.

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    popped into the follower hole that was cleared of all the sealant (s) that had been thrown in there previously.


    Repeat 4 times each side, but don't turn over the case to do the other side until pushrod tubes are in or they might fall out.


    Push Rod Tubes

    To make type 1 engine owners jealous... type 4's can put these in with the heads on!

    Cleaned up the pushrod tubes earlier by ramming on a dowel in a drill and spinning in some wet and dry to get off all the surface rust and gave a lick of satin Rustoleum.

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    I had a few of tubes and rods lying around, and picked the best 8, watch out for the tube lips that hold the ring seals corroding and having sharp edges.. give the insides a good clean too. Ithink dents are bends not. As long as the ends are flat to each other and they're the right length, s9me new ones came up short somewhere...
    Roll the push-rods on a flat surface to make sure they are straight, and all the same. Solid lifter ones are aluminium.. not magnetic, hydraulic ones I'm told are steel..

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    Pop the seals on the ends,

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    watch out for the two rouge ones on there .. one's for the distributor drive shaft (aboit the same size but that one has a flat inside edge), the other is the pulley seal (that one ìs a bit bigger and thinner)

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    Oil up the seals and the holes they are going in, no sealant required as they need to be able to move with the engine expanding. After all that effort on cleaning, sealing and torquing the case, there are 16 holes with a push-fit rubber ring to keep the oil in!


    Push the tube in through the head,

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    use a big fat thumb or a socket set extension with a sock (or similar) wrapped around the end to push and twist the tube into place, it's quite stiff but should click (more of a dull thud) into place.

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    Repeat 4 times before turning case over and installing followers and tubes onto the other side of case.

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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  13. Awesome thread Deefer, some excellent tips and advice.
     
    Deefer66 likes this.
  14. Cheers fella.
    Hope someone else finds it useful.. I use it to make sure I did everything along the way... I sometimes re-read go back and fix

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  15. Nice tutorial.


    Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
     
    Deefer66 likes this.
  16. It’s not easy to see from the STF pic but the pushrod looks too long to me. The adjusting screw should be at the same angle as the valve stem at half lift.

    rocker - deefer66.jpg
     

  17. Been working on it... shimming rockers not cutting rods as pretty close...write up coming soon!
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    77 Westy likes this.
  18. That's better.
     
  19. Rocker Gear Install

    I'll do this in a few parts...

    Fitting

    Put your rocker gear together either as they came off or modified as above in Rocker Gear Modifications.

    The rocker bars have a chamfer on the hole on one side, this apparently goes against the head as the stud gets a bit wider at the head end. The pedestals have a gap in them, that points down towards the push rods.

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    there's a wire retainer for the pushrod tubes that gets held in there, and top of the pedestal has a chamfer on the two top edges running along the line if the rocker.

    Install the rocker when the cylinder they're going on is in the firing position, that way both valves are fully shut and you can torque the nuts properly.. If they weren't you can think you've torqued them and when the valves come off the cam the nut will be loose..and it'll fall off. I go backwards 4, 3 & then 2 & 1 because its easier.




    You might find that someone has replaced one of the studs and put it in a bit too far - I couldn't get any stud out of the nut when on and wanted to have spare for adjusting rocker height if required lated so i pulled it and loctite'ed it in a couple of mm higher, one for lift and one spare out of the nut.

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    The nuts on here are M7 - you can upgrade the studs to M8 and some shay you should if the cam is an upgrade as there's more load on there.. but I didn't. They tighten to 10ft lb. (13.7Nm)

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    When each pair of rockers are on one side don't forget to install the push rod tube retaining wire, I go both ends then middle.

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    After the wires has gone in check it's pushing down on the tip lip of the tube and not slipped down inside it

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    • If its stock nothing has changed, all should be aligned as the factory intended... set gap to 0.006" or 0.15mm, swivel feet drag a bit more than standard on the feelers, dont forget to tighten the lock nut....and move on to the next.

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    Done both, pop a cork gasket in, some like a little grease to hold it some dry most don't like to use sealant espaecially silicone types..pop the cover on VW logo upside down , much easier here than on the floor under an engine. Put the spring back on job done

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    • If you've increase stroke, you're going to have to do the whole adjustable push rod length and alignment procedure. ( I'll post a copy of one next just in case..)
    • If you've changed just a little, you might get away with a lite version of rocker alignment. - I'm doing that next.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
    Valveandy likes this.
  20. Valve Geometry - Long Version - Theory

    I'm not doing this as I think I'm close enough to stock geometry to get away with some shim under the pedestals to get things back on track, but if you are increasing stroke chances are you'll need to fir custom pushrods.

    Just thought you might be interested if it's your thing and I came across the original Jake Raby's Aircooled Technology Technical Articles - "Jake's ultimate valve train Geometry Article!" in an archive site, there are other guides , just Google Valve Geometry.. but this one is pretty complete and he is quite a good engine builder

    I'll warn you now it's a long read, if the link dies I've copied the text..
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020

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