Track rod flip

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by coop2, Jun 25, 2022.

  1. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    One more thing - Transporterhaus/T2D flipped original spindles are very low, I reckon 4" +, maybe 4 1/2".
    The commonly sold cheaper cast ones are more like 3" and add 15mm to the track either side. Not nearly as low and probabl less painful to live with, but almost essential to change your wheels for some ali ones that tuck back in those added 15mm.

    And another - 2 splines down to match the front - oops, can't get the rear wheels off now without either
    Jacking the rear suspension down or
    fit hinged (so-called adjustable) springplates.
    Both cases you need to detach the bottom of the shocks. One is more convenient should you have a flatty. Jacking the suspension down is not really a side of the road thing, it requires a lot of force.

    I'm not really trying to put you off (well I am but I know it won't work), just point out the downsides. What can i say, nobody would have put me off, you have to try these things yourself. I used my bus a lot and lowered so far was in the final count up a royal PITA, but it was a fun journey. The best thig about spindles and spring plates is it's all non-destructive bolt on so you can always put it back - worth keeping in mind, stash your old bits. ;)
     
    areksilverfish, Dubs and snotty like this.
  2. I’m not fitting drop spindles ! I’m using standard spindles I just want to flip the track rod ends
     
  3. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Oh, so you're not really going very low then and already the mere act of lowering it will reduce the angle of the track rods. Flipping the ends will increase it won't it? The opposite of the effect you were after? lol, I'm confused.
     
  4. The steering rod and track rod should be level but now the bus is lowered the track rod end is higher than the centre point on the steering arm which will make the steering funny. I want to flip the track rod end to bring it lower making the steering arm level and correct.
     
  5. So really your not speaking from good old experience, just internet gleaned knowledge ??
    If you want to lower your bus that's fine but don't expect a massive improvement over the stock setup as EVERYONE above has said - swings and roundabouts , lots of messing around for very little actual gain . Nothing wrong with a good stock set up !

    Or do you just need to get it low enough so it clears the garage door...

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
     
  6. [QUOTE

    Or do you just need to get it low enough so it clears the garage door...

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

    that was one of my excuses, but then I tidied the garage up and went back to stock. Much better ride and no flak from the anti Red9 faction. I still occasionally scrape the roof if it’s not parked far enough in.
     
  7. why do you say this???
     
  8. My bus is lowered and I can see your reasoning for this as I was thinking of doing the same on my bus.
    However to flip the track rods, it can end up with them being angled in the opposite direction which also isn't great for handling.

    Maybe try removing one trackrod and offering it up underneath the spindle, also factoring in the bush insert which will make it sit a little lower and see what angle it gives you.

    I purchased my bus lowered with drop spindles and a 4" narrowed beam which was really low.
    I've now got the beam set on it's maximum height and put on stock spindles which is more comfortable to live with. Ok the arms aren't perfectly straight but it handles pretty well.

    The bus also now just squeezes in the garage. Which is why I don't have it stock height.
     
  9. Look at your original post .

    Track rods are flipped to stop them catching on lowered busses , not to improve the handling by 'getting them level' .

    Good luck , for every acceptable lowered van out there there's a dozen lemons.



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  10. I lowered my XO with the creative beam
    Only because the old one was corroded at the top shock mount ,
    Did all that adjustable spring thing at the rear ,
    I didn’t think it was that good,
    But people like it ,and looks nice on certain vans ,
    But I don’t get all this upside down inside out horseshoe narrow tubs business to make it handle better,
    I think stock handles just fine and it’s more comfortable especially on the potholed roads
    We have to endure.:)
     
    Zed and Lasty like this.
  11. As for off roading - we all think we wont do it, then when it rains at Victoria Farm, the field develops some seriously wet low spots, and its worth being able to keep up the speed to get across. 120 miles later, I still had about 1kg of mud in the wheel arches. .

    As @Zed points out, my bus is only lowered a bit by cut and twist, but doesnt have an anti roll bar for ground clearance reasons, so I am happy with my fully independent suspension driving over rough access tracks to campsites around the place at a reasonable speed. I can do the pillow style speed bumps at 30mph and the French ones at the required 30kph so I am happy.
    The lowest part of my bus is a thin stainless steel air scoop (an Ikea bathroom cabinet from the days they actually made them out of metal rather than tin foil over chipboard) below the oil cooler. Sometimes I have to bend it back into shape. .

    Its always a larf when we have to push T5's through that mud at Victoria Farm that any stockish T2 can cruise through..

    Really though, its very difficult to persuade a bus to lose grip on a normal road - I like going round roundabouts faster than other cars find comfortable, also partly trying to psyche out the "oh its a bus, I must pull out in front of them". It leans over and the passenger starts to slide around first...

    What you will find "funny" about the handling is partly because sitting over the wheel , you have to turn later than in a modern car.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  12. So you don’t understand basic suspension geometry then?
     
  13. Thanks for your reply. But I don’t want my bus to be stock height. I don’t think having it lowered is going to stop me going where I want to go and stop me getting on and off a campsite!
    I do understand the driving position is a little different to “modern cars”.
    Back to the original question?
    Have you ever fitted a track rod flip kit?
    did it handle any better?
     
  14. Obviously not ...

    Crack on sunshine - and don't forget to post your findings to educate everyone

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
     
    Pickles likes this.
  15. Why are you being an arse? I thought I would ask if anyone has any experience of this mod and you’ve just come back with arsey comments why? Just why?
     
  16. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Well, maybe because all things considered, the downsides for driving a lowered bus massively outweigh the upsides, it's purely a fashion thing. Honestly, it's fashion. After the initial lowering you then embark on the gradual myriad of stuff like tubbing it, sprung shocks, flipping rods, tyres, wheels etc to make it as nice to drive as it was before you lowered it. lol. That's the reality.

    Ever heard of expectation bias? That's what lowered bus peeps exhibit. They spent a lot of time and money so it must be better. Sometimes they go round a corner, it feels nice, they put it down to the bus being lowered but actually it was just a nice bit of road. :)

    You only really come to terms with that when you put it all back to stock and your next drive is faster, more comfortable, the speedo is back to being realistic, the gearing from correct size tyres is right and darn it - it still corners just great.

    On paper I'm sure you're right that levelling out the track rods will inch you back towards good suspension so why not? The fact that you won't notice because it's a loaf of bread and other more influential characteristics will slow you down before those rods become a problem is neither here nor there. If it makes you feel better - go for it.

    I don't think you'll get any replies confirming or denying your expectations because probably nobody bothers and/or you won't be able to tell anyway.

    You will find many threads regarding solving the self-inflicted problems that come with the fashion of lowered suspension and you will find opinions from people who have put their lowered suspension back to stock along the lines of "thank god I did that, it's lovely to drive now".

    When all's said and done, to some people lowered buses are cooler than a polar bear. But, it's a fashion (I know, I'm repeating myself again) and to live with it you do need to do everything you can to counter the "ruined" suspension so I'd say go for it, do all you can including flipping those rods if the trig is right. :thumbsup:

    All the above is based on personal experience, not theory. I've been there, done that and back again. I would never have another lowered bus because I like driving fast and over an average journey my stock bus will be faster than your lowered one. I'd happily race you to prove it too.
     
  17. By flipping track rods all you are doing is altering the particular instantaneous vertical position of the front suspension where the toe in is maximum. As @Zed said, this may help steer the bus in a corner in a particular way. Moving the steering wheel has a bigger effect.

    The usual reason is to stop the track rods whacking the chassis, if you havent notched the chassis.
    The other hazard like my snapped (flipped) anti roll bar is you are putting the track rods nearer that lump of set Irish Readymix smack in the middle of the road.., or the time you leave the Irish shopping centre where the road consists of driveway paviors on gravel and theres a pair of 15cm deep wheel grooves left by HGV making delivery... then be glad its only the ARB getting hammered..

    I would ask the earlybayers about this. They seem to like dragging their buses on their bellies around the place, partly its easier with the kingpin suspension on the front..
     
  18. Thank you for you reply and you experience with both lowered and standard height bus’s.
    And you want a race do you lol!! That will have to wait until the fuel prices how lowered sorry lmao.
     
    Zed likes this.
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  20. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    I might be cheating a bit - 2.4L type-4 power. :)
    I would (and do) spend my money on the engines these days. Last 2:
    Fast high revving type-1 wasser crank 2020cc, big valves, stroked, racy cam - accelerated really fast but not so good cruising (crappy type-1 cooling)
    P1010117.JPG
    P1010122_zps52c25a0c.jpg

    2.4L type-4, massive torque, loads of power at all "sensible" revs. Will cruise at 80mph sat nav without overheating.
    Best a/c engine I've ever had by miles.
    upload_2015-12-19_1-57-6.png
     

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