SORTED- FOUND - Original condition T2 - unrestored pls

Discussion in 'Late Bay Classifieds' started by Mellow yellow, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. Hey guys,

    Okies after looking for what I though I wanted and then seeing some moonraker's, westfalia's, I've stumbled across another moonraker, that I'd like to see.

    I don't know about body/metalwork of these buses, where they rot, what to look out fo, whether it's been bodged, or whether it needs serious work etc, I don't know about the mechanics and would like to follow the well versed advice on here to take someone along who knows lots about these campers or someone who would sinepct this potential VW with me/ for me?

    The VW I've seen is in Durham and I live in Kent. Is there a guru member in here that could help me and meet me to have a look at this VW camper or if there aren't any members who could do this, (I understand),

    Does anyone know of a specialist VW inspection service that would scrutinize this VW for me (I'd paid the inspection service charge of course)????

    Everything I've read points to buying the best condition, rust free (if possible) as can be found and I'm having to alter my budget accordingly, just want to make sure we make the right choice.

    Seen a company called "dubmasters", but can't see any reviews or mention of them anywheres...

    I pm'd late ay sponsor "67bay" but haven't received a reply as yet and not sure if he is still active on here or not. I've pm'd David Oft too to see whether he would be able to inspect a VW for me too

    Any pointers to specialist gurus, professionals, sponsors or specialist inspection companies to help me?


    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  2. redoxide

    redoxide Guest

    Having read your posts and saw your budget, my advice would be either find more cash for the bus of your dreams or blow the wedge youve earmarked on an OK "restored" bus that will probably have issues and could be your worst nightmare. Not having any mechanical knowledge or bodywork awareness, I would advise you to look at something else, but thats not really helpfull if you have set your heart on a T2 Bay.

    Im a time served mechanic, and have built a number of vehicles from scratch, but I found the van a chore. Because I wanted it to be right I pretty much replaced everything that could would or even might go wrong when the van reached the road.... but even then, every one of those components could would or might still go wrong.

    Ive read on here that people are worried about travelling any distance in there vans as they are unreliable. That shouldnt be the case, these old busses were daily drivers in the day and covered thousands of miles without issue. The difference from now and then was service schedules.. Now its 20,000 miles before an oil change, then it would be every 3000, or thereabouts.

    Oil changes, points, and plugs plus tappet settings all serve to keep things running reliably. But dont forget the brakes need adjusted on the rear as does the park brake and clutch cables, no automatic self adjustinng gizmos, so you need to keep on top of things.. Pick up a hobby bus thats been infrequently used , the first thing you should consider is a full service by either yourself if competent, or a good mechanic that actually knows about mechanical things and isn't a computer reliant "technician" . These old things need proper servicing and regularly, even though there parked up most of the year, they still need serviced before they go wrong..

    This all costs money. more if you cant do it yourself or have time to do it..

    16k busses will have had there fair share of welding, but unlikely they will have had a full restoration. having said that there are loads and loads of busses for sale, lots from dealers but some from folk who have bought into the romantic notion of a T2 only to find its not really what they thought it would be .. Its a vintage van not a new Audi sedan.

    I finnished my bus afer 8 years on and off resto work, no labour it cost me around £20k over the 8 year period.. and I can say it drives like its on rails and steers with one finger buy fluke rather than design.. It feels like its trotting along but the speedo just packed in so I cant say what speed im doing but at a guess cruising speed is probably around 55 ish.

    In the 3 months its been on the road Ive done around 3500 miles which isnt bad in one of these, one trip to south wales from northern scotland was 1200 miles and another trip around the north of scotland netted 914 miles, plus other days out and short trips .. But most of the time it sits in the garage ..

    After each trip I do a full service . So far its had 4 complete oil changes, 2 set s of plugs and 2 sets of points.. It needed the oil changes but the other items were preventative maintenance.

    Has it broke down ? Yes within the first 500 miles of running in the FACET electric fuel pump packed in but the £18 chinese copy I replaced with the Facet has been presses back into service and has run flawless.. Has it broke down since..... NO.. it drives great, but there was a smell of fuel, that was a new fuel hose that had perished where it was secured with a hose clip.. probably my fault that one.. Now it has squeaky brakes, well more a squeal, ive had the pads out several times but they still squeal so currently waiting on decent pads to arrive .

    If you want some thing you can buy and forget in between periods of use, a T2 probably isnt the best option ..

    Thats my tuppence worth ...

    Ref the vans in the collection you went to see, im only guessing but would the starting prices be close to twice your budget?
    IZZYBAY, theBusmonkey, Day and 2 others like this.
  3. Thanks Redoxide

    That's exactly my experience of classics from years ago. I'm 44 but before used to breathe and dream classic cars, bought myself an old mini but this was impractical, so I told myself and I bought an old mg midget 1275 round wheel arch with chrome bumpers, wire wheels etc. Bought with rose tinted spectacles and turned out to be a masterpiece of filler.

    Ended up buying a British motor heritage new repro body she'll, then set about 4 years restoring everything before transferring to the new body shell. It was a labour of love, i don't have all the tools from back then, but kept a few like the old grease gun for greasing the wishbone nipples.

    I'm no mechanic, but can do oil changes, plugs, greasing components and basic maintenance. I haven't bought manual yet, as I wasn't sure which variant I would be buying it 1600/1700 or 2litre.

    I'm happy to get down and dirty and enjoy tinkering. I sold my mg midget (main car) when I started driving for work, and needing a more modern car, I turned to Japanese mr2, then turbo's and heavily into the modified engine seen transforming this to a 550bhp monster but sold that as I was bored and was more about speed then driving, now with my little family, I enjoy cruising along so the VW camper will be good. The mr2 had oil changes every 5-6000 miles purely due to the turbo and longevity. Re: camper My dad had one when I was a nipper but was ropey and had Tupperware boxes velcroed to the cooker, the flow where the pop top leaked.

    This will be a second vehicle, but will be out and about every weekend, just for the craic and to go drive around country and coast, pitch up onto campsites and have a weekend of it, at other times it'll be just to shows, festivals and classic car shows and driving about.

    Before any of that, checking and renewing any fuel lines will be high on my agenda including a fire extinguisher system, including a good service. My budget has been adjusted and now raised our budget to buy the best Westphalia or Moonraker, most likely Moonraker we can afford to try and avoid the pitfalls of restored busses with no before and after pics etc..hiding horrors that'll only show up after a fierce winter or year down the line.

    I kinda know more what I'm looking for underneath, even though photobucket now fooks things up and most of the links aren't viewable now. Having seen my old mg "creamed" and sculpted by filler on good panels welded over old, I have a bit of an idea, but being a much significant purchase I am naturally anxious when handing over an £18-20k sum.

    The VW I'm looking at is supposedly original, no welding, but the sceptic in me says that's may because it may need welding because it is original, but then I'd know exactly what I'm getting/buying or just walk away.

    I had thought of trying to buy a tintop (good Australian one I'd seen that I crawled under, has no belly pans and all sound outriggers, sills and body work, took a magnet to the sides, no ripples and 2 litre), then have a Moonraker type roof or Westphalia roof cut and fitted onto this. I could still do this but am just considering my options once I've seen this one as I am swayed by the originality of this one, I like the retro feel of the interior. I've also been offered another Moonraker too.

    Because this one is in Durham, it's a good trek for me, but just need an independent inspection, or experi need member to have a look at this with me if poss?

    Thanks for you thoughts, advice from your seasoned experience :)
    redoxide and Bhubesi like this.
  4. As Redoxide say's.
    When you own one of these bus's you must:-
    1. Either be a competent mechanic yourself, or
    2. Know a competent, experienced, 'old school' mechanic, ( not the computer driven variety).
    3. Know an experienced MOT examiner, who actually knows what he is doing and looking at.
    4. Be a sympathetic driver, and nurse the old girl along, she is a elderly horse, not a race horse.
    This works for me!
    Robo, Merlin Cat, nicktuft and 4 others like this.
  5. The ideal you are after probably exists and would be fab. I suspect the buses you saw in that collection might well be that kind of thing. I can't see one as good as that for your budget though, unless you are really lucky and the seller either doesn't know what his/her bus is worth or wants it to go to a good home kind of thing. @Bhubesi really is spot on too. Even if you find lovely mint one it will be 40 years old and they are forever in need of bits and bobs doing, and occasionally bigger than that. Mine is in decent condition but still has a few bits of rust I need to do and I've hd the engine out more than once too. If you have to pay people to do that kind of stuff you need deep pockets. I had a leaky flywheel oil seal. Garage reckoned £500 to replace it as its an engine out job. I did it for the price of the seal. Its that kind of thing really.

    All that said these buses are pretty wonderful additions to the family. My lot love going away camping, doing festivals etc. We wouldn't be without it now.
    Mellow yellow likes this.
  6. @geordieandy could you nip over for a look ?
    Mellow yellow likes this.
  7. I think basically what people are getting at is, by the sounds of it you don't want any aggro. You might feel that you are pushed for time to do a full resto but you don't want to be driving a heap of Marmitee either. So by buying a really good example, throwing big money at it at the start in the hope that all the aggro has been taken away and you can just enjoy camping in it.

    If that's an honest description of how you feel. Buy a t5.
    18-20k would buy you an absolute beaut. Turn key. Arrive at site. Camp. Drive home. Pass mot first time. Service by any old local garage for 200 quid a year. 100% camping. 0% aggro.

    If I've learnt one thing from being on here it's that bays are a hobby first and if you actually complete a camping trip it's a big bonus. T4 and t5 are campers

    If you genuinely don't want to be a hobby mechanic then why on earth would you want to rely on a forty year old vehicle.
    Colin N and Bertiebot like this.
  8. I live up in Newcastle Upon Tyne so feel free to PM the advert link as I might know the bus or seller or both :thumbsup:
  9. Thanks peeps for all the thoughts, comments, suggestions and recommendations. All I'm looking for is to find the best condition, bodywork wise as I can find, as I'm not wanting to buy a welding project, but to buy as sound an example as possible. I'm no stranger to working on classic cars, having used and followed the Haynes manual on all my cars and have done so on my mg midget, triumph tr6, or genuine Toyota workshop manuals on my previous mr2 NA and MR2 turbo. With My older cars I followed regular service schedules. I know these T2's are 40+ yes old and as such are 40+yrs old technology. When I restored my mg midget, it had leaf springs, wishbone suspension, etc etc and kept her original as I restored her etc but subtly modified her to cope with driving in traffic, additional oil cooler, modern eletronic thermostat controlled fan etc and it coped well but was no mover, cruising at 55-60 miles with occasional 65 miles on overtaking.

    Just to clarify any confusion, I'm not looking for turnkey camping,..I don't like the T3's or above. Sorry guys. Yeh the T5's are nice but they do nothing for me. I grew up with ford cortina's, Capri, escorts, mini's, Austin Hensley Sprite, triumph tr6, mg midget before modern cruising in mr2's etc.

    I'm just wanting to get the best bodywork condition T2 I can get, and the rest is a bonus. Thanks rustbucket, but it's not aggro I'm trying to avoid, just trying to avoid buying a resto project, buying someone's "restoration" and wanting to buy an honest T2. The bay will be a hobby, and a way of life. My dad used to have his bay engine out in his T2 camper many times back in the day, when I was a spanner monkey passing the tools to him.

    Rest assured, I know they're a 40 year old bus with 40yr old mechanics and technology and will never be a modern car. I'm happy to work on her, and tackle as much as I can using a Haynes manual, still have my 3 ton jack, axles stands and sockets etc and have access to a good old fashioned MOT garage to help with anything that proves too tricky and also have a neighbour whose son has a VW hire company, and maintains their own campers.

    Thanks geordieandy, I'll send you a PM buddy ;)
    Bhubesi likes this.
  10. redoxide

    redoxide Guest

    Well at least your going in with your eyes open having did the classic car thing for years before reaching this point. Im the same background with the classics but weirdly I would say ( this being my first and last bus resto) that my bus drives ace ... its a real pleasure to drive, if only folk would take the opportunity to overtake when it presents itself rather than sticking to the rear bumper.. Its proper frustrating when you're doing 50 in the nationals and johnny audi with able acceleration wont pass you even when there is a half mile of clear view and no bends to worry about .. I used to pull into laybys and let them pass, but after rattling the bus through potholes in unkept laybys, I now choose to just trot on and ignore there presence.. :)

    Other than that I thik I have grown to love my van after much hatred toward it in the build process.. :) I even washed it today for the first time since it went on the road .. Then changed the oil again, every 1000 miles it seems, well there ain't a lot of it and it does a lot of work in an unfiltered air cooled motor :)... checked the plugs replaced the points ( I buy em in bulk) and adjusted the carb linkage and carbs. :) then put it back in the garage .. LOL..
  11. I just re-read my post and it does seem to come across a bit disrespectful. Apologies it wasn't meant to be.

    Good luck with your search. Post up some piccies when you find the one.

    I seem to remember someone on here mentioning that they might be selling a moonraker but I can't remember who it was.
    Mellow yellow likes this.
  12. Just posted my Viking which is for sale, I've had it 15 years - depends if it your sort of thing ...

    Attached Files:

  13. I have a USA tin top type 4 2l fi and rust free. Why go for a pop/flip/ roof top? We only sleep inside her and live and cook in the awning. nb also have a usa spec 1976 MG midget...small world....good luck with your search. Have a look at VW Downunder web site who are based near Basildon Essex, they are all top price but sometimes a cheaper one pops up.
  14. yeah right.
    davidoft likes this.
  15. davidoft

    davidoft Sponsor

    Cheaper like £30k instead of £35k :eek:
    S1mon likes this.
  16. I've a pair of LHD, Californian import Westys, 69 Tin Top, Stan the Van, full restoration before I bought him, complete with lots of photographs throughout restoration, lightly modified, height, exhaust and seats mainly, body standard. Huge history file and copy of 5 page feature from Ultra VW magazine available to e-mail to you. Or 73 Late Bay Westy, also LHD Californian import, Bob the Bus (as in my profile picture). Mechanically original, seats etc. Never welded and great underneath- original paint with 47 years worth of local touch-ins etc. Also has big history file of work done, but could do with minor repair round windscreen (dash currently sat on my dining room table for re-wiring so can send pictures showing inside of screen area confirming just how minor the required work is) . Having lost storage unit one must go. Have lots of photos of both but too big files to upload here. Let me know your e-mail and I'll send them with pleasure. In York. Offers around £15k for 69 or £14k for 73.
  17. Hi thank you all for the helpful, tips, advice and tips abd offers of vw for sale.

    I've now been to look at one and bought it yesterday. Very long and eventful drive home! Will take pics etc when rain has stopped, she needs work, bit if welding and new paint. But needs a new high amp battery, good oil, plugs etc service, then shakedown and then getting her fit for days out and camping until weather is too naff for it. Plan to use her every weekend when poss

    I'll be using the search function as i have a long list of wants but will cocentrate on basics first but Deffo need to wire in a cig lighter to run sat nav and phone charger abd perhaps a radio. Mine has medium and long wave crackle only lol then a marine split charge leisure system and loads of layers of clothes as the heater is well...pants!

    Thanks again, Cheers Julian
    art b, Merlin Cat and MorkC68 like this.
  18. don't we even get a picture?
    Merlin Cat likes this.
  19. I'll get some up a bit later on!

    How do you guys upliad photos nowadays? Photobucket is naff.

    Don't really want to Facebook them lol

    Ps Can Any Devon moonraker double top owners recommend an outdoor cover (spare wheel on front!)

    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  20. image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg Here are the pics, she needs some work, but she unmolested and solid underneath with good interior too ;)
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    art b and Flakey like this.

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