Scottish independence.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Poptop2, Nov 18, 2013.

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  1. I agree (I think). Team GB is stronger than a group of individual states. We have a dig at each others Counties and nationalities but when it comes to the crunch, we unite as GB, we aren't bad at what we do.
    In a simple analogy, take rugby. At 6 Nations level we passionately support our home nations but every few years, the nations join together and become the British Lions and all the fans, regardless of their birth place, unite.
    As an observation and glossing over a bloody history, isn't the current GB a blue print of what the UN is trying to achieve in Syria, The Middle east in general, the former Yugoslavia, and Rwanda? We have a group of tribes (English, Scottish, Welsh, Yorkshire) and religious groups working very together as GB. For some reason Alice Salmon wants to break this unity up and cause division.
    United we stand, divided we make life unnecessarily more difficult.
  2. Seems unlikely long term. The vote would re-balance in England as it would in Scotland. With a big majority in England, the Tories would probably be confident to move to the right and in the end make more room for a centre party (Libs or other new one). Scotland would be the same - Scotland used to return Tory MPs and it seems ridiculous that there are no Right of centre voters in Scotland, so some form of Scottish right of centre part would emerge either from the ashes of the Scottish Tories or as a fresh start.
  3. South Wales? If so, it's highly likely that you don't have to go very far back to find that your family are English immigrants who came to work in the coal industry. I know mine are - all Welsh miners on my dad's side, but descended from miners from the South West of England who moved into Wales following the work. When it comes down to it, we're all mongrels and the whole Nationalist thing is a bit pointless really.
    Poptop2 and Jono1249 like this.
  4. Moons

    Moons Moderator

    She got as far back as 1740 something to the poor house/workhouse in Llanbedr - couln'd get any further.

    There seems to be a difference in the coal fields of East/South Wales and the farmlands in the West I guess - I thought most miners came from Cornwall to be honest given their mining expertise.

    It'll be interesting to see how the English/British embrace our Eastern European siblings and culture given our open arms acceptance of the Asian's and the Blacks/Irish before them - and our well documented acceptance of other cultures as we 'visited' their lands before.

    Saying the nationalist things is not important is a recepe for disaster - it might not be for you (or us in this instance) but it is for them.
  5. Thats reassuring yet worrying at the same time!
  6. Moons

    Moons Moderator

    Oh don't worry - the shadowy evil that stalks this earth bares one name only.

    baygeekster and Lord Charles like this.
  7. :eek: moi :eek: where did i say that "quote":confused: , :lol:. no comment
  8. Poptop2

    Poptop2 Moderator

    He was a tit - can't believe you went there, I just used his words?

    We do what we do to survive, live where the work is. My wifes family moved to England from Naples so they could eat and live.

    I definitely am not saying you should move, why would I?

    A working man is a working man wherever he is from and believe me I have met all classes of working man from bank executives to road sweepers and we all share the same emotions, we all hurt, get scared, worry, okay at different levels of comfort or conceit even, but I don't do this you are Scots/welsh/Italian so you are different crap. You are a person and you will be judged on yourself. if you are a tit, you are a tit if you are a tight wad then you are tight wad, being a different nationality doesn't make you so.

    I am not saying I love every one, I don't, people pee me off every day, but I give people the benefit of the doubt, it matters not one jot where they are from.

    As to the Scottish devolvement, if you think it's because of national self respect, you need to think deeper about it. People in Scotland are not that fussed in general, yes you get the mouthy bloke on the tele spouting about how much they would love it. When I was in Glasgow on Saturday I spoke to the shopkeeper and a few of the lads from the steel works and not one of them were keen or even sure about it. They understand the possible implications to them and their family's.

    As always there are people behind the referendum pushing it for their own purposes, Woody as already said that there are 41 labour MPS in Scotland, the Torys would be glad to see the back of them for a start. There are probably a hundred more ways those in power would benefit and those not lose out. who's to say the British powers won't benefit either, who does own the oil rights?
    Jono1249 likes this.
  9. Moons

    Moons Moderator


  10. Yeh but yeh but its the way your reading it i actu ally didnt put what you said i said init :confused: putting words in my mouth init :lol:
  11. oh and this medication tell ? it may be illusin ations:oops: dont drug n draw ,,, conclusions:D
  12. Moons

    Moons Moderator

    I didn't quote you verbatim or state that I had - not my intention to literally put words in your mouth.

    You asked:
    I just tried to answer those two questions is all. Did I misunderstand their meaning?
  13. im only joking moonee im on different drugs :lol: not really you have ta laugh ;):hattip:
  14. Moons

    Moons Moderator

    God love you Barn - you are one mad lycheeer!
  15. Woodylubber

    Woodylubber Obsessive compulsive name changer

    Most of the north of England feels the same, it's not exclusive to the Scots/Irish and Welsh, Prescott tried and failed to get devolution for Yorkshire a few years back but it failed due to him being a fat lazy useless waste of space :) oh and maybe the collapse of the economy took peoples minds of it
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    Moons likes this.
  16. The problem is that although it seems to be a nice idea to have regional assemblies, what do they do and what do they cost? Now we have Euro MPs, Westminster MPs and local councillors. With a regional assembly, we get another layer of politicians / bureaucracy with their noses in the trough - just like the Scottish and Welsh assemblies. We need fewer politicians, not more of them.
    Jono1249, Poptop2 and sANDYbAY like this.
  17. Having re read this thread, it's easy to see how people's views can be misconstrued, or mis-interpreted (nothing new there then!). 'Nationalism' and 'Patriotism' stem from opposing ends of the same mind-set: 'Patriotism' arises from the love of one's country (values, geography, culture etc.)...'Nationalism' arises from the hatred of another,
    I'm using the terms 'Love' and 'Hate' to illustrate the practice, the distinction between the two are often blurred.
    If the populace of a geographical region feel subjugated, exploited or otherwise disenfranchised, then it's natural for them to harbour a disliking for the usurper, and, in extremis, take up arms to defend their culture and way of life. We've been there and done that...This has been going on since time immemorial, and looks set to continue for the foreseeable future...every once in a while, a figure, or 'touchstone' rises to the fore, providing both a focal point and a mouthpiece, to challenge current thinking and articulate people's grievances. Such figure's include Confucius, Jesus, Ghandi, Martin Luther King....even John Lennon!
    Alex Salmond is no such figure...IMO, he is merely exploiting the present political and economic unrest to further his own cause...his notion of an independent Scotland has less to do with Scottish patriotism and a sense of injustice regarding how Scottish people have been treated historically...he is a Nationalist, and for that reason, the canny people of The Highlands would do well not to be swayed by his jingoistic sophistry.
    Poptop2 likes this.
  18. I watched tinker tailor soldier spy last night...
    George Smiley:
    "...he is a fundamentalist, that's why I know he can be defeated. Every fundamentalist is concealing a doubt."
    I know Alex ain't a fundamentalists but you get the idea? - he's definitely hedging his bets and in doing so, I think, weakening his position. Anyway do any politicians really believe in any cause except themselves?
    - and yes, I am working towards a PhD in armchair philosophy.

    Poptop2 likes this.
  19. I bought mine online from The now, pay in January:thumbsup:

    it's a great film....
    spiker likes this.
  20. Poptop2

    Poptop2 Moderator

    So that's it then. TLB once again sorts out the problem, Devolution is a no go for Scotland.

    This thread has been a very revealing thread indeed. We know not who owns the oil, but we know @Moons is a Cockney, We have no idea how the gdp of Scotland will finance the upkeep of their armed forces but we know @vanorak prefers to use ten words when one will do. We know not whether Alex Salmond is an egotistical self perpetuator or genuine romantic Scot, yet we know @baybirmingham has other geeky bents, I have an IQ of 12. @Top Banana Racing is a tight git who would rather drive to Ross than pay the severn toll, and @Paley has never been taken up the m65!

    That's it then - tlb triumphs again. I told you TLB knows all! ;)
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
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