We have recently bought a slightly unusual late-bay, being a 1977 2 litre injection Westfalia Berlin which was exported to California where a Riviera pop-top roof was fitted. The van was shipped back to Europe 8 years ago and is in good, original condition, but needing a fair bit of TLC. So far we have done a thorough service and replaced the gearbox as it was on the way out. Whilst the engine was out our mechanic noticed that one of the heat control pod’s was broken so he fitted a new one. We are now getting some real heat into the van which is good, but what is not so good is that we are also now getting some exhaust fumes. Since I am not so keen to kill the family off with carbon monoxide, replacing or repairing the heat exchanger has now jumped to the top of the to-do list. The heat exchangers we have are the 2.0 injection version with a separate exhaust manifold which is connected to the HE with a U shaped “front exhaust pipe” (this is well illustrated in Bentley). The problem we have is that all those which I can find are the European spec integrated one’s which are connected direct to the exhaust ports. So my questions are: 1. Can we use one of the normal heat exchangers, as sold by JK, VWH, Machine7 etc to replace both the HE and the manifold? 2. I have concerned about the quality of the replacement heat exchangers, especially their heat output. Any recommendations? 3. Is it possible to get the original heat exchanger/s refurbished? 4. We have a poor quality aftermarket exhaust fitted, and I am keen to replace this with either an Empi Quiet Pack, or an original spec exhaust. Again, any recommendations? Thank you in advance for your help. There will be plenty more questions once I have stopped poisoning the family!
I am not familiar with that type of setup however I am sure VW would not waste loads of money redesigning anything to be vastly different from their normal stuff? If anything I would guess your heaters being rare should be a lot cheaper as nobody would have them over here?? Maybe Fleabay.com might be your answer, get them from the States? The only issues I have ever had with any heat exchangers (including T25 2lt engined ones) were the exhaust rusting either at the top Front end or where it fits to the exhaust? Rarely go inside if that is what you are saying? Might be worth removing them and giving them a good check over, likewise exhaust gases can easily get in from poorly fitting gaskets? Any other heater components missing from your engine? I know the 2lt set up is quite different?
Comes up a lot this, so before you do anything too drastic are you sure it's not oil dripping onto the heat exchangers that's causing the fumes? As Stan says the inner pipe rarely rots through.
Thanks Andy. I am fairly sure it's not oil as I had a reasonable look and couldn't see any and it smells like exhaust gas to me but I will double check before opening the wallet!
Do you have a CO detector in the van? If so that would most likely go off if there was exhaust fumes getting in. Regarding the heat exch type, are they not like the ones sold by the usual merchants? ( I know there are 2 types for 2 litre engines, mine is the very late one that has the connection onto the head directly and no U bends, the other type have a copper ring type of joint. Our heating was quite smelly but I put it down to the layer of congealed oil I have scrapped off everywhere when I dropped the engine, the fan housing was full of all sorts of s**t and took some degreasing. I believe old heat exchanges are better than new ones, have just fitted new ones on mine so will see what the heat is like.
Thanks Stan for the fast response. I would like to assume that VW wouldn't make changes to rule out fitting the other style heat exchanger, but since they are expensive bits of kit I really don't want to take the risk. I think the gasket idea is a good one, especially as it's possible that the reason that the fumes started when the engine was removed was because the HE could have been knocked about rather than because a new control box was fitted. I will investigate more closely this weekend. My concern over new heat exchangers was really about heat output rather than rusting as I've read various posts on here which say that the pattern one's have far less surface area/fins and so much less heat. As heat is at a premium in an old bus I am keen to get the best I can based on everyone's recommendation, if indeed I need to replace them at all.
guys, the heat exchangers on Cali imports are way different to the ones for Euro buses, the design has differing tubes and flanges. Try RCC Imports, they have some parts on there ebay shop. The US set up looks like this: The EU setup looks like this
Thanks for this. I will put a CO detector in the van this weekend and will hold it up to the defroster vents so that it can have a proper sniff. I am fairly sure that the fumes are exhaust as they are very different to hot oil type smell, but then again who knows what has collected in the pipes over the years! The heat exchangers are definitely different - see Mark's reply below.
Heres the closest exhaust which may (don't quite me on this) fit as its got the same triangular flanges on http://bugpack.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=291 The US heat exchangers (top diagram) have an inverted, single port outlet wheres as EU spec have the two round ports (bottom diagram). I think but again cannot guarantee it, you need to find the exhaust to cylinder head flange style on your heat exchangers and maybe source eu spec ones with the same port dimensions - Paul Weeding may be the man to ask. Then you have a wider choice of systems to fit!
1700 will be oval port exhaust, so it should just be a case of swapping the HXs over from US to UK spec ones... Main questions to ask yourself are: Do I want HXs, if yes, then UK ones and a UK silencer are your only real option.. If no, then I'd go to someone like turbo thomas for a pair of stainless J pipes and a nice stainless muffler!! Also, before you go too mad spending your cash on new HXs, you need to make sure that none of the joints are leaking, as the gasses will find their way into the heating ventilation if there is a leak!!
if you want heat exchangers, are the other gubbins such as the heater pods, blower ducts different on cali buses?
Just a thought... but have you checked that your oil breather pipe is fitted correctly? I recently bought a 2l bus with twin carbs and the oil breather pipe was missing altogether so I was getting engine fumes pumped into the cab whenever the heating was on. If you have a stock carb, the oil breather pipe should be connected to the big air cleaner box, but if you've had replacement carbs, you may have to add something like this from Just Kampers: http://www.justkampers.com/oil-breather-kit-cast-aluminium.html. In essence, it redirects the oil breather to the carb filters, as they should be.
Thank you Mark and Paul. I don't have any kind of aux. heating and want to drive in the winter (or even summer!) months, so yes, I do want to keep the HX rather than go with something rather cooler looking. I will have a good look this weekend in case any of the joints are leaking as that would be good news. If not, are you agreeing with Mark to say that the UK spec HX will fit my 2.0 injection engine, which will then free me up to go with any normal exhaust such as a quiet pack?
so long as the flanges are same, the h/e's should fit - I'd go with Pauls advice, he knows better than I do!
Good point but the various breathers are all fitted properly and in good condition. I've got one of those US spec Bosch Jetronic fuel injection systems so no carbs for me. Mixed blessing I think!
I am indeed agreeing dude You'll need to get under her with a torch and have a good look round the exhaust ports on the head... they have an oval copper gasket, and they are very prone to leaking if someone has had the exhaust off, and not got it back on exactly true... Basically you're wanting to check all joint points, and you're looking for any signs of black sooting, as this is the tell tale of a blowing exhaust!! The head ports are the hardest to determine as they go quite deep into the heads!!
Ok guys, that gives me a plan for the weekend - thanks for all your help, I am so impressed with how quick and helpful everyone is. Cheers, Nick
