Petrol is not good for your bus! There have a been a few posts about whether one or another fuel hose supplier is any good. The question we should be asking? Is this fuel any good? And the answer is almost always NO! I have been wondering why so many people are paranoid about their bus catching fire, and indeed why are there so many bus fires? Well it turns out that petrol is not always what it seems. In the good old days 4 star was, well, petrol, admittedly with tetraethyl lead added to stop knocking, as petrol on its own is only any good at low compression. Then we had unleaded, and of course they had to add all sorts of extra nasties to that to make it work, and the makers had to harden the valve seats so that this new fuel would not burn the seats away. And that, you may think was the end of that. But Oh No! What about European Directive 2003/30/EC? This is the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation which came into force unnoticed on 15 April 2008. This placed an obligation on road fuel suppliers to ensure that a target percentage of their total road fuel sales are biofuels. The target percentage started at 2,5 % by volume in 2008/09 rising to 5 % by volume in 2010/11. So what are the adding? Ethanol. E5 unleaded contains up to 5% ethanol (ethyl alcohol, a bio-fuel). Is this a good thing? Yes, if you grow the crops that make it, but no if you drive a pre-1990 vehicle. And that brings me back to fires. When petrol and alcohol are mixed they make a much more aggressive solvent than either on it's own. They attack rubber, nylon , cork, sealants and some metals. They attack the resin in fibre glass and much work has been done in the motorcycle industry as they used to make a lot of fibre glass petrol tanks. For us air-cooled VW owners the problems are that the new fuel attacks old fuel lines much faster than before, hence the increased occurrences of fire. Changing your fuel hoses is good and most opt for "suitable for unleaded " hose SAE J30 R6. Recent tests have shown that R6 is not good enough for E5 fuel, failing in some cases in as little as 6 months. The recommendation is for R9 hose. Usually stated to be for fuel injection vehicles but also meets the spec for E5 and E10 fuel. The other area that suffers is petrol filler tubes, and we have seen problems there too. No-one seems to make any special products for that area yet but we need to start asking for them. Best plan is make sure yours is not too old. In fact regular replacement in both areas is a safe option. And cheaper than a fire extinguishing system. Don't ignore this as the ethanol mix is going up to 10% by 2013. In some American states they are already at 15%. So it will get worse ? They already have an E85 blend there too for those whose vehicles can use it. Why have you not yet seen E5 on a fuel pump? It's because they don't add ethanol to all their fuel in some areas so the average addition is below 5%, and there is no legislation in the UK obliging them to do it. This information comes from a report prepared for the Department for Transport but here is a good link that tells you what to look out for in coming months . http://www.acea.be/news/news_detail/vehicle_compatibility_with_new_fuel_standard/ And here is a good place to buy your hose. http://www.advancedfluidsolutions.co.uk/saej30r9-r10-r7-fuel-injection-rubber-hose-95-c.asp There might be some good news. In the DfT report there is a recommendation that E0 petrol should continue to be available for historic vehicles. Nothing has happened on that front yet. You can find some sources on the web of where to find E0 fuel in your area.
This makes interesting reading http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=e5%20carburettor&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CE4QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.dft.gov.uk%2Fpublications%2Fqinetiq-10-02471-assessing-fuel-system-compatability-with-bio-ethanol-and-risk-of-carburettor-icing%2Fbioethanolstudyreport.pdf&ei=iCBOUK2QK6W00QWF3ID4DA&usg=AFQjCNENhQWor50M77DORu976LKXK6ZE5Q&sig2=BC4QyZW_1MOpG4L9eVASUg Mainly talks about E10 but some is relevent to E5. It tells you why your fuel hoses rot, fuel filter get blocked up and your carb corrodes, your engine runs leaner because ethanol contains 35% oxygen, why your more likely to suffer vapour locks and hot start issues, but less likely to have carb icing.
I've got R9 fuel hose from the supplier that you mention above all fitted with proper fuel hose clips - good gear too. But ..... now I'm worried about the clear plastic filter - is that gonna fall to bits on me??
Been in the spotlight for some time with bikes. Triumph and Ducati tanks (circa 1995 on) seem to have had issues with the tanks swelling and deforming. There is a group of Ducati owners currently trying to make a case against the fuel companies! Seriously, with the tank removed from the bike and left lying around with no fixings retaining it, the fixings have needed elongating in the frames to accommodate the larger tank. They also ripple and in some cases delaminate. Many vehicles (early nineties) have also been suffering with carb or injection rubber seals being eroded and causing fuel leaks.
ooh, blimey. about to have my filler and breather pipes changed, will ask mechanic about the better hose. don't know if it's true (or off topic) but a while ago someone told me not to use supermarket fuel as it's different/worse than that from a non-supermarket fuel station, is it true?
Don't think you can generalise regarding supermarkets and I know some supermarkets are supplied by different suppliers but I wouldn't be surprised as they set the benchmarks really due to their buying power.
Snotty - is the plastic that the filter is made of imperveous to attack by ethanol? The reason I ask is that I was thinking of putting in a more 'permanent' fule filter - something like a Filter King perhaps.
Good advice - if it works on a modern car then it should be OK with modern fuels. Right - I'm off to GSF to get a Golf filter.
Just a note. Althought there only a few refineries they blend differently for each tanker. So a supermarket one gets one spec but the following one could be a top brand that wants lots of additives, like ethanol, which are added at the tanker stage not during refining. I found another document which was a briefing for filling stations about E5/E10. It warned about leaving these fuels in a tank too long as the ethanol separates out and then the product has to go back to the refinery to be remixed chemically. It can't be done with a stick!. So there's a warning there. What happens to this fuel when you lay up your bus over the winter? !!
ethanol is added as late as possible in the refining/delivery process due to its affinity to absorb water from the air, so it is to be expected that there wil be differences depending on supplier
good post thats why i have pushed here at cool air to drop the cotton over braided stuff (we have) in favour of the R9 stuff http://www.coolairvw.co.uk/Item/Surcharges/HOSER-5/5.6mm_Rubber_Fuel_Hose_-OB-Sold_Per_Metre-CB-.html there is also a fully biofuel proof hose available which i have looked into but would have to retail about £20 a metre would you guys pay this for fuel line?
Watch out for silicone hose. It's meant for air and coolant systems at hi pressure. I've seen it sold as fuel hose, but if you read the small print it really means vac hoses that might have some fuel vapour in them. They do say NOT for fuel lines or anywhere where fuel is in contact all the time. I've just dumped some I bought by mistake and I could see a change in the condition of the bore after 4 months !!!!! The same people usually sell R9 for fuel lines.
