Lottie, a 79 full restoration Part 1/2/3/4/5

Discussion in 'Restorations' started by martinvention, Jul 12, 2015.

  1. Bought, unseen on E-bay and transported from Snodownia to Somerset by truck at a 1/3 of the bid price. "Lottie" had been well stripped by former owner and dry stored but life got in the way and I hope I can complete the job. There is so much good stuff on The Late Bay and I will try and confine this saga to the main milestones and interesting aspect that others might wish to use.
    OK so first Photo, engine transmission, axles stripped out. Steering box proving difficult so left till next stage.
    I have fitted stout timber frames to the front and rear chassis members and the offside body. Next a set of heavy duty wheels; front pair castoring. So the tub is light, easy to roll and will go in the garage. On castors.JPG
    Next photo, I have laid a paved area and the light shell is easy to tip over and support on the offside frame with some logs. Tipping outside.JPG
    Next Photo, easy to get indoors and even tip over, just clearing the garage door. NS outriggers and inner sill fitted.JPG

    Here you can also see first bits of good new metal (Scofields and Autopart) going in. Apart from TLB my main reference is Fletcher Gillett's Haynes Restro Manual and I am following his lead in tackling the core load bearing stuff then moving out and up. front x member 2.JPG

    New X member and Top hat above, the deck is only bad around some edges so being repaired rather than opting for a thinner repro. Fitting front top hat.JPG
    Here the top hat is being slipped into position, sorry going backwards a bit.
    I have a nice selection of 1.5mm steel offcuts to make deck repairs... the Zummerset way....with some bits of oak and a cider press: Press and moulds.JPG
    Putting in the crinkle cut profile with a flat edge margin Patch and moulds.JPG

    The process leads to a degree of distortion so best to trim and fold the edge flanges later.
    Next step is to fit the middle sill and as cautioned elsewhere even the best replacements lack the exact curvature and horizontal roller retaining track. So I have removed the old one by drilling out the spot welds from below as they are invisible on the top and I did not want to drill the much thicker threshold plate. Note on my 79 the outer line of deck spot welds visible from above, secure the deck to the threshold and not to the middle sill. I will update the story when I have joined the old and new bits of door track on the middle sill and leave the thread with a question; could some kind soul with a good 79 ish give me some dimensions? Specifically 1. door vertical roller diameter, 2. distance of horizontal track (mid sill flange that joins to top of outer sill) from bottom face of deck threshold and 3. distance of track from bottom of gutter above door. VMT Martin

  2. Flakey

    Flakey Sponsor

    Like the cider press idea, could have used that on the pickup load bed
  3. I was just wondering what to do with all the apples in my garden.... :)
  4. Good luck fella, keep the pics coming!!
  5. Next job is getting the lower door rail and mid and outer sills sorted. The problem is the (good quality) replacement mid sill has no horizontal roller track and is not quite the right shape on the bends. So it is necessary to salvage the old track the top 15 mm being in good shape and attach to the new mid sill. This is difficult in situ as the inner sill reduces access so I decided to remove the track, attach to the modified mid sill and refit. Trouble is the track is attached to the deck threshold which is about 3mm thick and so impossible to see spot welds to drill from above and probably not a good idea to drill and plug weld through the threshold from a strength and distortion point of view. So some piccies: Track mid sill error 2.jpg
    Track spots drilled from below and track curves compared to new mid sill.
    Track mid sill cut and realign.jpg
    New sill curve cut and reshaped then welded in place to horizontal plate. Then a 35mm (doubler) strip is plug welded to the back flange of the track and the track plug welded back to the threshold;
    Track and doubler fitted.jpg

    Now there is some good metal to attach the mid sill to; mid sill tacked 2.jpg
    After lots of fettling and alignment checks to get the horizontal track parallel and correctly spaced to the underside of the roof, there was a 3 to 5 mm gap between old track and new sill. I was going to plug weld the mid sill to the doubler but the gap and doubler lent itself to a seam weld solution, without the weld intruding onto the bearing area of the horizontal roller. Note also a few extra plugs to strengthen the mid sill horizontal trackway.
    Outer sill fitted and primed.jpg
    Outer sill firmly attached and after lots of grinding, plenty of primer including to the 2 sill voids, via a long 'squirty' tube.
    B post repair from front.jpg
    Frontal of B post repair prior to primer squirt. Next job is to fix bulkhead above and close up voids probably with a couple of holes for Waxoyl later. This track solution might be a bit long winded but I guess I will only know if it was a success in a year or so when I have a serviceable door to trundle along it.
    Defnop, JamesLey, rock65 and 2 others like this.
  6. Time for an update. Plan to do other side sills and jackpoints next postponed as my crude roll over frame will need to be removed, 'handed' and refitted so decided to do NS rear quarter next. C post base inner stiffners and rear beam cone needed work: C Post Base fillets.jpg CPost base done.jpg Rear Beam fillet.jpg Cone repair NS.jpg The window opening and sliding door mid rail area were bad and needed new metal: Rear NS window and track.jpg Rear NS window and track4.jpg

    Next the inner arch NS inner arch repairs.jpg The front and back sections needed lots of trial and error to fit well and receive the outer arch: NS Rear Wheel arch finished.jpg

    Attached Files:

    Coco likes this.
  7. And a bit more: rear quarter almost done.jpg

    Sliding door rail refitted, and some filler in joint of joggled window edge repairs. When I have done some more filler and seam sealer below and well primed everything I will refit rollover frame so as to start on OS. Update may be some time - no need to hurry enjoying the journey!! Also its almost Cider season so scratter and press will be busy!!
    jivedubbin and paradox like this.
  8. Silver

    Silver Needs points/will pay!

    I think Fletcher Gillet frequents TLB:thumbsup:
  9. Great work! You'll have a new one in no time. LOL
  10. T'aint got MoT, wheels or engine but we are travelling, burning time? yes. But fettling is a great journey and we are lovin it!
  11. Time for an update, progress slow but steady. I removed and handed my crude rollover frame to work on the offside, the sills, outriggers, jack points floor edges and some top hat ends all needed replacement. Photos show it better, first some DiY floor sections OS floor repairs.jpg

    The middle of the floor and the chassis rails are sound so all progresses well, but some bits need more time here a section of inner rear wheel arch made from
    1.5 mm steel as are most of my repairs, shown with rusty original remnants and cardboard pattern:

    OS inner arch front.JPG

    The OS middle panel was sound except just above and all below floor level. Having bought good Schofield inner and outer sills I needed to bridge the gap to good metal on the middle panel and I wanted to replicate the pretty shaped joggle that is used on the middle panel edges, so I made an appropriate joiner panel with triple bends by the sill flange. Then I welded it to the outer sill and B post base outer repair before welding the whole assy to the floor/innersill/B&C posts:
    OS Sill and mid panel.jpg

    OS Sill welded to DIY panel3.JPG

    OS Sill & DIY panel clamped.JPG

    The bottom of the trimmed mid panel is joggled inwards to meet the top of the new panel which is set a couple of mills below finished level to hide the seam.

    OS Front sill closer fitted.JPG
    Sill and bridge panel plus B post base repair and closer all welded and primed

    OS degreased.JPG

    Finally a couple of shots of the bottom mid section, now all solid and a few bits of surface rust treated with Red Flag converter prior to Bonda and eventually Rust Oleum which I have purchased and paid a bit extra for a mixed light powder blue which will be Lottie's new colour, topped with cloud?? white.

    Underside degreased.JPG
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
    paradox likes this.
  12. Is this you?
    paradox likes this.
  13. redoxide

    redoxide Guest

    Looks ace... love the fabrication work on the small repair sections .. cool..

    Mine is a a van conversion like yours. do you have a roof cap for it ?
  14. Thanks for input, not my photo above but wish I had his barn!
    Lottie was a Holdsworth conversion and I have the GRP elevating roof. I have stripped the timber frames and canvas bellows for storage as that part of the resto is a long way off. I expect a new bellows (white and blue alternating horizontal sections maybe) would be a wise investment, any idea who supplies them?
    Dave Maude likes this.
  15. Finally got a solid rust free cargo deck, and everything beneath
    Floor Top Red.JPG

    Floor Bottom Red.JPG

    Going blue Rust Oleum soon.
    Spacecowboyuk, rock65, CollyP and 6 others like this.
  16. Ya, very nice. Thats over 1/2 the bottom. You're getting there.
  17. Many thanks to all who have read, "liked" commented and otherwise provided me with considerable encouragement in what is going to be a long project.
    Now gone blue with Rust Oleum mixed to a RAL 5024 colour code: Blue Bottom.jpg

    There are loads of inaccessible places; above the top hats and the top of their flanges, even a spray gun would not do. So I have done it the hard way with a 25mm brush and then these little 10mm brushed one with the head bent at a good angle, still a bit more to do inside the X members. Some time in the future I will do a final spray coat.
    Paint Brushes.jpg
    exuptoy, NewtoVW and paradox like this.
  18. Taking a break from sheet metal work for the winter months as I want to get my elderly daily driver back in the garage, so poor Lottie will have to take her chances under several waterproof layers, topped off with a Maypole 4 ply breathable cover. Having read other threads I almost bought a similar product for twice the price, however the written details seemed identical and I have opted for what seems like a durable product. I will report later after the winter. Bagged for Winter.jpg
  19. Flakey

    Flakey Sponsor

    I've just had one of those for xmas, fitted it yesterday, impressed so far!
  20. Interesting Flakey - box in a bag and they are nice bags..........with big wheels!.
    Meanwhile Lottie Resto Part 5 and I am grappling with cogs! I had a sort of a notion of a plan, that I might not need to strip the transmission. No plan survives first contact (with the enemy) and in this case first contact was draining the oil and out with the mag-plug came these bits: Syncro Bits.jpg The top are a syncro blocker bar split in 2 and the lower I think is a corner from the syncromesh hub adjacent to the cutout where the bar came from. So from this point on a full strip was essential. Also when I removed the CV drive flanges I found witness marks on the diff bearing carriers indicating that the box had been dismantled before, so possibly good news if worn bits were replaced but a worry if not done competently. Many books warn DiY's not to strip boxes especially VW's and though a press and some special tools might be used I believe a gearbox to be less specialized than an engine with hot gas sealing, white metal bearings etc. My last VW an early water-cooled flat 4 jammed in 3rd gear when we were camping in Europe and fortunately I still had one of my homemade tools for removing the differential bearing carriers, this is a 40 mm square hollow bar with 2 lugs of 15 mm solid square bar welded to be a snug fit: Diff Bearing carrier spanner.jpg The other tool I made was a socket to fit the pinion bearing large diameter castellated ring nut. My tool was crudely made from an old taper roller bearing race with rollers welded to the edge and it looked so ugly that I threw it away a few years ago. So whilst I pondered a replacement I used one of Murphy's Laws "Try the easiest thing first" and having eased back the peened locking flange from the cutout in the bearing. I gently tapped the nut with a long pin punch and lo it turned, so perhaps not that well torqued up last time fitted!!
    Here is the gear cluster removed showing the difficult ring nut (red arrow) put back on the pinion bearing for reference, so a special tool has to fit the castellations, and over the pinion: Gear Carrier and cluster.jpg
    Having got this far, most bearings and gears seem good but I can see that the blocker bar came from the 3/4 gear hub so I expect to find more damage when I press the shafts out of the carrier and strip the hubs. Report to follow..........
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
    jivedubbin, 66Paul, MorkC68 and 4 others like this.

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