Independent electric fan to drive original interior heating system (73 1600 tp)

I'm not happy about the air for my heating coming from the smelly engine compartment, so I'm thinking about employing an entirely independent electric fan and drawing in fresh air from the top of the air scoops.

I know that later vehicles had additional electric assistance, but this isn't the way I want to go. What I'm looking for is a heater blower from a modern car or other source. Anyone had any experience of doing this? What sort of fan did you use? What about controls?

 

Don't want to be a pooper, but you're not going to have much luck with this. The energy needed to give reasonable heat is going to drain your battery in no time. Assuming you want heated air, that is.

If it's fresh air you want...well you've got it already from the vent on the front of the van. "Ambulance fans" in the air ducts shift it faster, but make a racket.

If it's true heat, go with a Propex (gas) or Eberspacher (petrol/diesel). They both pump out tons.

Alternatively, you could just fix the van heating, which works very well if it's in good shape.

 

Check out the system Danbury fitted to RHD converted buses. The paintshop had one in. I'm not sure how it worked or what fueled it and knowing Danbury, it'll be expensive. Best place to ask about this would be on:

http://www.brazilianvwbay.com/

 

Sorry about this, I obviously haven't stated my intentions clearly. :-[

I don't want to heat the van electrically - that would be mad. What I want to do is use the original heating system (which works fine) and simply blow fresh air through with an independent fan.

Ambulance fans were indeed used on some models, but like the fan in a 60s or 70s car this is going to be a bit pathetic - our Morris Minor fan made some noise but didn't shift much air.

A modern car fan should do the job, but selecting the right one is the trick.

Someone on here must have done this. Anyone opening their engine compartment doesn't think "oh what a lovely aroma, I must have the smell of hot oil and the slight whiff of petrol (from the tank ventilation I hasten to add) piped directly into the cab" - or do they?

 

No they don't and it shouldn't smell. Cure your oil leaks and fix the petrol tanks vent pipes - it should vent into the air filter not the engine bay.
Most of your heated air stink will be from the heat exchangers which will have had oil on/in them. If you stop oil getting onto and into them the smell will burn off in a few hundred miles. Simply blowing air through them from outside will make no difference. Replace the HX's without fixing the oil leaks and you'll be back to stink in 20 miles.

 

Its inherent of the design that they will have some "whiff" from the heating system that is not common on water cooled cars. If yours is that bad though you need to look at the source like a leak from a rocker cover etc. A good tight draft free system is quite effective. Having done my pushrod seals mine doesn't smell but you still get that "whiff".

As for another fan, Naskett did post up a picture of T1 engine using the extra fan used in buses with the T4 engine. But that fan itself is hardly worth it. What you have to bear in mind (and it was discussed previously on here some time ago) is that a fan inline with the system is going to be subjected to great heat. I did think about it too but my totem pole gets mighty hot!!

 

^ what Zed said.

Your bus shouldn't stink of hot oil or petrol AT ALL, if everything's in good shape. Not the slightest whiff, nothing, nada. If your heating's working, I'd suggest you deal with the exchangers, pushrod tube seals or fuel breathers, rather than just dealing with the symptoms.

If anything, the heating air is a bit too clean and dry if stuff's in good shape, so it's worth getting the fresh air supply sorted as well. Even on a type 1 engine, the system can supply volcanic heating. The ambulance fans were in the fresh air supply ducts, and I can assure you they're far from pathetic. They shift vast amounts of air and make an infernal racket doing it

 

this system has been fine for 60 years why does it need changing now ?

 

Thanks for all the responses. My engine doesn't leak oil - well not since I re-engineered the Marmite telescopic push-rod tubes with some proper O rings. It may be that the smell I'm getting is just paint from the various new and refurbished bits. The tank breather certainly needs sorting, but that's mainly because the bloke I bought the van from fitted one of those useless pancake air "filters" - need to source an original.

OK, so I'm willing to buy the idea that I can sort out the whiff, but what about poor flow at low revs?

 

Thanks Birdy. All seems very complex compared to a modern water-cooled car system. My plan was to dispense with the efforts of the engine driven cooling fan altogether and let it get on with what it's needed for most - cooling 8).

To this end my intention is to block the fan housing outlets and feed the HEs with air fed from outside of the engine bay by a powerful variable speed blower robbed from a modern motor.

My motivation - since I've not actually used the heating system in anger yet - was driven by all of the posts on various forums stating the failings of the heating system even when well fettled. Thus, I thought absolutely loads of people would have done this already and someone would come up with a ready made solution.

I think my heating system will function as well as it possibly can do, I've renewed the HEs, fitted new hoses etc (including the bits that usually get left out). I've got new cables and the flaps are opening and closing properly, the main ducts are all insulated and everything seems to function as it should (I've disconnected the rear compartment ducting and blocked the outlet). The heat comes through well when the engines at higher revs, but I suspect that demisting in traffic is going to be an issue (it definitely will be at the moment as I'm missing the Y piece from the top of the totem - must put a wanted ad up).

Happy to be told I'm mistaken and that I'm missing a fundamental issue, or that in practice they work without any failings, but I suspect that there's no substitute for an independent blower that really moves some air (and VW obviously thought the same when they added supplementary blowers to the T4 engines). I had all the same issues with kitchen extractors BTW. Most of them won't move enough air to remove water vapor and odors as the motors are pathetically low powered.

I'll do some research into suitability of modern car fans and controls and post here if anyone is interested and thinks a 60 year old design isn't beyond improvement .

 

I'd get it working as well as you can using the standard system and see what its like first, make sure there are no leaks and insulate all the pipes. Did you manage to get original HEs? the aftermarket ones have less fins inside so moving more air through them wont be as beneficial as if you had original HEs.
Having the cold air vent open helps with demisting.
I got a ceramic hot air blower from maplins to provide supplementary heat for demisting. Plugs in the cig lighter, though Ive got it wired into leaisure batt fuse box, it draws 15A which is on the limit for a cig lighter socket, which used to get warm, wired it into the fuse box to minimise voltage drop
To keep the heat in make sure all your door seals are good and there are no gaps around the pedals and handbrake.
If youre still not happy I'd be interested to know how you get on with a modern blower with a fat feed pipe up the air intake. Air flow, power consumption, and noise being main points of interest.

 

Set up properly, the VW designed system provides all the heat you can possibly want

http://thelatebay.com/index.php?topic=16527

 

Thanks Scote and Moltini Mike.

I don't know if the HEs are original or pattern, but I suspect the latter.

I'm fairly sure that there are no leaks on the system, but I have to say Mike that I found your linked post very encouraging and confirmed my suspicions regarding the lack of insulation and poor fit of the HE outer covers - will tackle this.

I'm definitely going to suck-it-and-see - if it all performs well then I'll leave it as it is.

Again, thanks for all the helpful comments - will update this later in the year.

David

 

You could try inserting one of these

http://campervanaccessories.co.uk/rule-100mm-bilge-blower-p-2578.html

into the 4" tube under the van, I read an article on TheSamba (I think) about an American guy who wanted a bit more heat at low cost - he inserted one of these bilge blowers and put extra wrapping around the pipe - reconned it made quite a difference for very little money.

 

that's what i have in the flexy pipe under the front foot well

 

Hi Ageinggroover.

At the risk of sounding like an ebay pimp O0 I spotted this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Camper-Heater-Helper-Kit-12V-Electric-Blower-Speed-Contoller-T2Customs?item=370649005215&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2041244595094596069#ht_691wt_1348

Again, I am not connected in any way to the seller so caveat emptor but sounds as if it is targetted at what you need. I am still pursuing naturally aspirated ways to convey heat from the back to the front myself

Cheers

Popester63