Engine size

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by iblaze, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. Hi all
    I'm looking into a new/reconditioned engine
    At the mo i have a type 1 1600 that pees oil out even if i jack the bus up it drips faster
    What i want to know is does a 1641cc actually give more power for climbing steep hills
    Or should i be looking at a 1776cc and would i have to replace the single solex 34 carb??

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  2. A 1641 is not a lot different really.

    If your engine has good compression, basically runs well and the oil is leaking from pushrod tubes or crank seal, fix those, keep it.

    A 1776 would need some rejetting of the stock carb, it may run a bit hotter with more power so fitting an oil temperature gauge may help.

    I keep asking myself why I bought a 1641 from the JK Preservation Parts range when I could easily have afforded a 1776. But the answer is that most of the time it goes fast enough, and I can get enough power to overwhwelm the stock cooling system with the progressive carburettor and single quiet pack exhaust.
    Which is probably why I didnt go 1776.
    Replaced like with like. Its so nice having an engine that had to be run in from new, not some recon potential disaster.
  3. Cheers mike
    This is what I'm looking at but they have so many I'm a bit ???
    They have red green?? I don't know if this is just the case colour or if there's an actual difference as for 1641 engines there's about 3 or 4 different ones?[​IMG][​IMG]

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  4. Just rebuild it yourself, £2k buys a lot of parts and you can make the engine as big as you want. There is no replacement for displacement, more cc = more torque, forget the bhp, it’s torque that pushes a bus up a hill.

    Those TES engines you linked to are bug engines IMO, for a bus avoid a ‘Fast Road camshaft’ - although without the cam specs it’s meaningless. And especially avoid a 009 distributor.
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  5. I was going to say engine size matters but it's better especially if you have a matching numbers bus (not many about now though) to rebuild the one you have. It's a bit of a minefield with after market engines even with ones that used to have a good rep like VEGE.
  6. ^this. 1776 is a nice "Goldilocks" size for a bus, but I'd be suspicious of the cam they put in. A stock one would likely be just fine.

    They will run with a stock Solex, but twin carbs will bring them to life.
    iblaze and Mark Darby like this.
  7. Mine is more like https://www.theengineshop.info/acatalog/1641cc-All-New-Mexico-Range-Engine-211100035DX.html

    But with an original VW crank and flywheel and conrods. And a stock cam.
    Stainless valves and push rod tubes. No distributor.
    Basically JK ask for a special with the high stress parts original and then have an upgrade on some other parts.

    I managed to build an engine for £1000 reusing parts from the previous engine including the cost of a hotel stay in Cardiff for the family while I collected a £51 engine block from Dave in Barry.

    Could be worth asking TES to tidy / upgrade your existing engine. May turn out cheaper and you can be sure nobody did something dreadful to the engine your recon engine is derived from....


    Somebody out there is probably driving an engine where this happened to one of the connecting rods when a piston was turned to chunks probably by the head of a valve stopping it going up..
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  8. Thing is the engine i have isn't the original for the bus.
    The Po bought the engine off ebay 12 years ago as a non runner sold as seen. He never fitted it, It hasn't even got an engine number.
    Although there's a number on the logbook.

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  9. What they said^ spend your money making it bigger but otherwise stock. Twin carbs are good.
    iblaze likes this.
  10. Crap i just seen price for twin carbs
    And i bet the new ones are pants.

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  11. One reason I spent less money and instead bought an AFR gauge and spent my own time and fabricated my own hardware tuning a new Weber progressive.
    iblaze likes this.
  12. You can get cheaper 2nd hand carbs that will do a job for you.

    I sold some twin Kadron carbs for approx £200 a few years ago.

    Work out what your budget is and then you can see what size of engine you can stretch to.

    I've had two 1776 engines, one was great & fairly stock, the other had 'better' spec but wasn't as good.

    Let me know if you want me to send you the exact specifications
    iblaze likes this.
  13. For an alternative carb source, I bought mine from here years ago.
    Delivered completely rebuilt and looking like new and sent jetted for your engine or spec.
    The linkage and filters from elsewhere cost almost as much!


    I suspect there was a plentiful supply of old Alfasuds (flat fours with single and twin carbs) in scrapyards for refurb stock.
    The website isn’t easy to navigate so if you get to a point where you know what you need I’d email them.

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    iblaze likes this.
  14. Depends if you're buying bits or a motor.. I'm not much good at building but I trust myself not to cheat..( Well maybe a little) and I quite enjoy it.

    Bits can all be got cheaper than new.. there a lot of kit bought and kept in a garage for years gets sold .. so you can do it a lot cheaper.. machining costs if you need it can be costly so watch out for knock on effects of any upgrades.

    Bolting a short motor together is not that hard, getting it running is more effort but only a thread away on here if it goes wrong..and you'll be doing that anyway if you buy a short motor built..

    1600 with better carbs would prob do for a bus in reality.. but 1776 would make it more fun.. prob wouldn't bother with the step to 1835(?) Walls get thin I think.

    Twin carbs come up cheaper on Ebay sometimes.. specially if you look for listings without the brand like look for Alfa carbs instead of Dellorto's..
    iblaze likes this.
  15. 1776 will run fine on the stock carb and you can always upgrade later if you wanted.
    I think machining for more cc is a good investment for a bus. From there, one day when you're flush and bored you could stroke it to over 2L without assistance from a machine shop.
  16. The original 1.8 was sold as delivering the following

    CR 7.3, 68HP @4200 rpm in a bus torque 132 Nm at 3000 rpm 91 octane
    CR 7.8 75HP @5000 rpm Type 4 torque 132 Nm at 3400 rpm. 91 octane
    CR 8.6 85HP @5000 tpm Type 4 torque 138 Nm at 3400 rpm. 98 octane
    So upping the CR on the same engine 93 bore 66 stroke ups the power. But they only did it for a lighter car.
    iblaze likes this.
  17. 2k is a lot of money ... I remember when they were less than £500 .. if you have no mechanical knowledge then stick with stock . I would avoid TES and go with ‘The VW Engine company ‘
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
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  18. I've never fully rebuilt an engine the most I've done is put a kent high lift cam in a capri.
    That said I'll have a go at anything but ive absolutely nowhere to stripdown and rebuild an engine on the front driveway would not be ideal.
    I feel i need to get rid of the engine i have as after almost a year of welding grinding and sanding (inside a temporary garage) i was horrified to find the engine that came with the bus had no engine number.
    Lots of people have said to me don't worry about it, as engines get rebuilt the engine numbers get removed but knowing what insurance companies are like if i had to claim they would use this as a get out claws and all the money I've poured into this vehicle would be lost.
    In 1991 i was rearended in my capri the car that hit me was insured by direct line,
    At the time i wasn't bothered as i thought he hit me it'll get sorted.
    The damage caused amounted to £1800 direct line refused to pay out because i had a boot spoiler on the car that my insurance didn't have on their records.
    I ended up getting payed out from my own insurance but it went down a a fault claim
    Believe me they will find anyway of not paying out.

    So I'm not rebuilding this engine but thank you all for your advice i really appreciate it.
    That's why im looking for another engine above a standard 1600 i think a fully laden camper will struggle up hills in Wales and the Lakes.
    Which is why i was looking at a 1776cc.

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  19. If your camper is struggling with a 1600..

    I can manage 20mph in second gear up a 1 in 5. Which is sort of fast enough when you have to let off on hairpin bends, and 65-70 on the flat.

    And .. you have been given a free pass with your no-numbers engine block. If it bothers you, go and buy a set of metal punches with the letters that match your V5 and the numbers. Now you have the unique case of a numbers matching engine.

    The spoiler is obviously a performance mod. The insurers laughed at me when I got worried about a spoiler and alloys on a 70HP Peugeot 309 GRDT .... turned out they were factory fit to suck in sad people like me to buy end of line cars...
    iblaze likes this.

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