FOR SALE Drop Spindles Group Buy!!! (T2 68-79)

The Background
As some you may have seen, I recently raised a bit of a debate about the best way of dropping my bus (defined in my terms as being cost effective whilst preserving as far as possible the original ride quality (as VW intended) and not requiring lots of other specialist parts to make it work). See the following thread as a reminder:

http://thelatebay.com/index.php?threads/pair-of-drop-spindles.40397/

The Research
As you can see whilst it originally started out as a “Wanted” thread it soon turned into more of a technical discussion point. As a result I have been back and forth and have considered virtually every core option out there:

· Adding adjusters to the beam;
· Drop spindles;
· Removing the leaves altogether and placing in coil overs;
· Garages that will drop your bus in a day based on a fixed height i.e. no future DIY adjustment;
· Complete front beam replacement with updated twin wishbone suspension.

The Conclusion
Having considered each of the above methods and their merits I’ve decided that drop spindles are the way to go as it achieves much of my original requirement: dropping my Bus whilst preserving the ride for reasonable money. Let me be clear, I have no major issues with any of the other methods named above. Indeed you could add one of the above (where appropriate) to drop spindles to give more flexibility in your solution e.g. add an adjustable beam to give you a nominal 1” drop whilst STILL giving an awesome ride.

A word of warning: whenever you play with the front suspension you should always check and reset the geometry to avoid bizarre handling and wear issues. My research has shown this step is often missed by a few.

But wait, which drop spindle should I go for I hear you ask? It’s true, lots of suppliers are selling them with some being of slightly different set up to others and actually giving a less than ideal ride quality or requiring other specialist parts either at fitment or in the future as they wear out. Again, having considered each product that is available to us I have decided that VW Heritage’s new drop spindles achieve my requirements. The spec is as follows:

· Fits all ball joint busses 1968 – 1979 (pre 1973 busses will need to run the later 1973 onwards brake systems);
· 100% new – not welded;
· Lowers 6cm (~2.5”);
· Fits without modification to any other part or body;
· Preserves original ride quality;
· No other additional specialist parts are required – uses stock ball joints, trailing arms etc so replacement of these items are plentiful;
· Your old spindles as ‘cores’ are not needed – this is an outright purchase so you get to keep your original spindles to enable you to take it back to stock height if you like!

Based on my research and information I have asked VW Heritage to put its money where its mouth is and have agreed with them a special group buy for us here at TLB!

The Deal
Essentially, once we have 15 (fifteen) lucky TLB’ers confirmed on this thread (see below) we will be able to buy a pair of VW Heritage’s new spindles for £430 inc VAT & P&P a set. That’s a saving of £90 off the retail price. The free P&P will be in accordance with their normal delivery area i.e. mainland UK addresses only. Surcharges will apply for those outside of UK.

If we only manage to get 10 (ten) plus people interested we would be charged £475 for a pair of the drop spindles (still a good saving).

The normal TLB price for a set of these is: £495.23

As you can see from the link below Retail price is £520: http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Dropped-Spindles-T2-6879-6cm-Drop-All-New-AC405310_act_shop.product_pID_161683953.htm

All we ask is that at least 2 of the 15 buyers permit their van to be photo’d and a sound bite taken from the owner-driver for inclusion into a blog on their experience of their busses after 1000 miles of the spindles being fitted. This will be published on the VW Heritage Blog. Of course, I will be doing this too.

But wait there is more: for those that do buy, if during installation they find they wish to replace other parts whilst everything is out already e.g. wheel bearings, flexible brake pipes etc, then they will be able to save an additional 10% on these parts too. Not bad eh?

If you are in, please add your name to the below and paste the list each time:

Add your name here and paste into a New Reply
@Spacecowboyuk

 

"Having considered each of the above methods and their merits I’ve decided that drop spindles are the way to go as it achieves much of my original requirement: dropping my Bus whilst preserving the ride for reasonable money."

You weren't listening then and have gone for a method that will not achieve you stated requirements however hard you screw your eyes up while wishing it would.

Nothing wrong with dropped spindles, but they won't do what you say without a whole lot of additional changes to dampers, bump stops, tyre sizes probably involving getting it wrong a few times along the way before you finally get there if you're determined enough.

Lowering a bus is not a bolt on fashion accessory, it's full on serious suspension modification. It will never ever preserve the original ride.

 

Hi thanks for your post. Firstly I have listened perfectly well thank you and as I said before I value your opinion. What I have learned is that even when it comes to dropped spindles there are differing applications of the same theme. Some are flipped, some are welded and some increase track beyond 12mm. You will see in my post that I take notice of the fact applying other solutions can fine tune the set up and even after that you must always check geometry. Now, as I say above, VWH are confident their offering does meet my requirements and clearly state that no other mods are needed hence them now putting their money where their mouth is. I see this as a reasonable step to proving their claim. This will be documented thereafter in the blog.

 

@Spacecowboyuk thanks for sharing your research. Just to clarify, this cost is for the parts... Which would then need to be taken to a mechanic? (Way beyond my tool box this one )

 

Hi yes the price is just for parts and they would then need to be fitted. Out of all the solutions available I think this is the easiest DIY fit and will go straight in where the OEM stuff will come out. There is no welding to do, no beam removal and no cutting so even if you did take it to a mechanic it would be nothing like the time spent, for example, removing a beam and welding in adjusters. Most likely you would pay what your mechanic would charge you to change discs and pads. He's just got to go one further and split the ball joints. I'm sure you would be able to find someone local to you from here that would help anyway .

 

Would love to stick my name / bus on the list but the state of bus and my bank account doesn't warrant this at present.
Thanks for the offer though.

 

I fitted some of VWH's spindles a couple of months ago. Combined with the new alloy wheels which also came from Heritage in the only offest they sell in this wheel, the tyres stuck out past the arches and even caught on the flange on the front outrigger (tyres wre a bit too square). Sticking out this far meant another inch or two suspension travel was lost because they hit the rim of the arch. I got some skinnier tyres which helped, fitted gas shocks and then finally modified the bump stops. It simply won't be a bolt the spindles on and done job.

Did you know you can't have disc backing plates with the spindles?
Did you know they only span those years they advertise if
a) on an early you chuck everything and convert to narrow 5 and late disc brakes?
b) on a crossover you convert to late disc brakes
You will also need a new hub seals and unless 73 on you'll need new wheel bearings.
All will need ARB fitting kits unless you're really lucky and get the old clips off in one piece.
Then you need both the camber and tracking setting.
Not DIY for most, sorry.

Good luck with it, but to regurgitate the advertisers spiel with no direct experience isn't helpful to anyone planning to go this route.

I've said me bit, nothing wrong with the spindles, but for the small drop, adjusters retain the track, all your brakes, the backing plates, your tyres and wheels.

 

I'll be up for it, I would however, like to ask a few more questions before I spend £400 odd quid.
As zed says, it's not a bolt on thing, and I don't want to differ from stock tyres, wheels, shocks etc. so would like to know (preferably from someone who has gone this route) the problems and extra expenses of thing they had to change.

 

Zed just pretty much answered my questions...

 

Sounds to me like you chose the wrong combination of alloys to go with the spindles there which = a bad experience. As with anything when you modify from stock you run the risk of getting stacked tolerances. Yes most of those points you raise are noted on their website and they are offering further discounts to those that may wish to replace consumables along the way. I'm sticking with stock steels so I'm quite happy.

Fortunately we are governed by English Law in this country so personally I am content to trust the claims.

 

It would be worth looking at my reply before counting yourself out I think.

Even if you drop a beam to add adjusters you are very likely to want to change consumable parts anyway as you are 'in there already' hence why I asked them to offer further discounts on parts to make this as painless as possible. I travelled in a dropped beam recently. It wasn't fun and requires attention to shocks.

And for the record, I say that out of all the solutions, this is IMO the easiest DIY. I'm not claiming this is DIY for the majority but there is a lot of help out there thanks to this place. At the end of the day, if you are going to lower your bus it's going to require a level of skill. Or use one of the other options and take it to someone to do or don't lower it at all.

 

As soon as the alloys presented problems the first thing I did was try some stock wheels and tyres. Better, but you'll still need either uprated shocks and modified bumpstops or coilovers.

Customer supplied the wheels on advice from heritage, but you go ahead and take more of their advice if you like. They're very good, but they don't get everything right.

 

I've got to drop my beam anyway to clean up and paint, new seals etc I'll probably buy anyway,
However I want to run stock rims, with the standard 185r14c light van tyres. Not lower profile ones. And the standard shocks if possible
So my main question is.. Which of the two options will work best with the otherwise standard set up?
Beam adjusters or spindles? Either will be dropped by 1 spline at the back also.
And Zed's experience is saying beam adjusters so far..

 

Beam adjusters for me and I've had experience of them all. Because of the track problem with the 60mm drop ones, they have the exact same problems as the 4 1/2" ones and exactly the same modifications are required. Might as well go the whole hog, except that they need even smaller tyres and other stuff gets too near the ground.

 

I can't comment on your specific situation but you are right not everyone does get it right. Its what they do after that counts.

This thread is to simply offer a reasonably priced alternative to an age old question. There does not seem to be one right answer to dropping a bay and everyone has an opinion. I'm just trying to do a good turn here with maximum transparency. Fair play to VWH for coming along with it think.

 

I know, and I'm simply trying to realistically fill in the glossed-over gaps for those with no direct experience and are considering it.

 

Ye I do get it it just needs to be a balanced argument though as there are pros and cons with every single solution.

 

@MorkC68 were yours the Wagenwest ones?