Brake shoes, drums, levers and spreaders, adjustment and issues with new parts

I am no welder , but i have a small welder, i just put a couple of big "globs" of weld in the required place then filed it to look tidy and to ensure the weld had worked.it only needed about 3,to 5mm adding. It was an instant repair and all worked 100% after adjustments . I had the van on the road for around 1500 miles and still ok , Then the engine blew up!!!

 

‘Only’ 3 to 5mm! Are you a plumber?

 

Yes, only 3to 5 mm , i cannot remember exactly why, i dont know if it was because it balanced the slots on each side of the spreader bar to make them the sale size , or , if i added more i wouldnt be able to put the brake drum on due to lack of adjustment. I just cannot remember , it was ten years ago but strangely seems like just last week

 

That's before he adjusted the brakes. It looks "normal" after adjustment.

 

If it helps Chrisd, when Zed explained to me all those years ago, the bit he said that made the problem clear to me was , that when you do pull the hand brake on as far as you can , but the handbrake still doesn't work effectively, then if you look closely at the area that hold the wheel bearing , you will see that the levers in one small area will be hitting the cast area of the bearing housing thus stopping the handbrake moving the shoes out far enough . You need to look realy close in the relevant area , perhaps get someone to pull the handbrake on and off whilst you look (,you may then even hear the lever hit the bearing housing casting) adding jut those few mm of weld allows for clearance enough to activate the brake shoes to do their job
Looking at my old post , it seems alot of photos are not available , at your request i will try find them if you think they will help at all , i recall i do have one photo showing the bar hitting the bearing housing .

 

Cheers for that @Sproggy4830 and thanks for the offer of the photos, but no need. I'm comfortable with the description and think that's what is happening. I'm looking at the brakes again later and will post some more pictures of the brakes all set up with no handbrake to show relative positions of the shoes, star adjusters and gap in spreader bar.

@77 Westy I can't remember when I took that photo, but I think it was pre adjustment of shoes.

@mcswiggs will try to measure various components to see if there is something different to old set up

@mikedjames new photos will show how star adjusters and hydraulic cylinder look now it has been set up with foot brake working well and no handbrake applied and cables loose.

Thanks for advice to all.

 

I accept that the slots may wear over decades of use but having to add 3 to 5mm seems a huge amount to me.

 

My photo above shows the new against the old and there is hardly any difference in the handbrake side slot depths, both about 17mm in my case, a bit if wear on the old, but not much.

I think @Sproggy4830 started with 15mm slot and took it down to 11mm.

Photo attached again for ease of reference.

 

Depends. If you start with a mismatch of parts (lets remember everything is pattern parts) and have this problem you have the choice of either endless buying of parts in the dark hoping for a solution or just sorting out what you have in your hands so that it works as intended. I recall when I did this I added 3-4mm despite an obvious wear step inside the slots that was a lot less than that.

 

The distance between the slots is more important than the depth, what’s the difference between your old ones and the new?

 

Looks to me like adding 2mm to the slot would move the cable end of the lever about 10mm.

 

i was going to add that to my post but didn't! I agree and will measure later, but the photos show the new spreaders have a longer distance between the slots.

 

As neither are right, does it matter? I'd set my sights on the end goal and head for that.

But still not long enough...

 

I would add that there's probably nothing wrong with the spreaders, it's possibly a red herring.
It could be the slots in the shoes, the exact position of the lever pin, the radius of the shoes or any combo of those.
Whatever - the goal is to get the lever into the correct position.
Chris has also a problem that the levers foul the lower spring end where they should pass above it.
It's just crap parts IMO but that's why a fitter would just eye it up and correct something so it worked despite the initial hiccups.

 

Some pictures to save a1000 words.

1) Handbrakes cables completely loose.
2) Foorbrake adjusted to point where drums come off, but not a lot of room.

Photos


Finally, photo showing position of the bottom of the lever when it gets close to spring....big clash in both sides.


Edit

From centre of lever arm pin to end of hook end
New 15.2mm
Old 14.5mm
Probable cause of snagging with spring!

Also noticed that star adjustment on both sides is biggest on handbrake lever side. Could this mean I'm pushing the rear shoe away from the spreader bar and leaving too much space for the brake shoe that does the handbrake work (front shoe I think?) To have to do? Not sure if this is wrong or I've don't it wrong, but it is confusing me. Ps I've adjusted the shoes previously in normal manner, adjust, footbrake , adjust, footbrake etc until both shoes just free from drum.

 

Old and new levers and interaction with spring. The old shoes do not go as far as the hole, whereas the new lever goes beyond the hole and if it goes past the sprin, gets caught and can't return.

These photos are for info before I decide the course if action. @Zed 's welding idea will work and having stuffed a piece of metal between the spreader bar and the lever arm, the lever doesn't have to move that far to start the braking action. However, the length of the lever is concerning.

@77 Westy both new lever arms have an internal distance between the base of the slots if about 11.8mm, very similar to the old ones.

 

The lever position without taking up the slack in the spreader mechanics is meaningless, it's being pushed back by the cable's spring
You need to adjust both shoes equally more or less when starting from scratch or one will push the other piston out. I do 5 clicks or so on one then catch the other up.
Lever length - I think you mean cm.

 

Is there something preventing you using the old shorter levers?

 

Cheers and yes cm it is.

As for adjustmet, that is sort of what I did. But I'm going to take the brakes out on one side, measure everything for my own sanity against the old stuff, put everything back together, then adjust and see.

Ref using old lever, nothing other than old one is riveted, so I might try that as well.

General shout as fustration levels rising grrrrrrr, this should not be this difficult with all new parts from one supplier...that feels better already.

 

I feel your pain - I ordered 5 porthole liners - 2-3 weeks they sad. 70mm deep minimum - no problem they said.
2-3 months later they arrived, sent to the wrong address and the longest was 64mm, the shortest 50mm. lol