Ahoy there Yee plumbers!

So here's the thing, I might know a shed load about nerves, muscles, blood vessels and all that mullarky, but this pipework on my Dad's house might have got me beat.

Photos honestly wouldn't help you on this one, it's a mess across three levels.

I want to run hot water to the sink in an ensuite on the first floor, that I'm building from scratch, so new everything in, new everything out, and new internal structure (which is a help in some ways) ...

Question 1)
The hot water storage tank is on the first floor, not in the loft, and there isn't the option to run the new hot downwards, under the floor and up to the sink
(as per the rest of the taps). I COULD do that but you wouldn't believe the amount of extra time and disruption involved ...
(Same story with moving the tank up into the loft.)
Will I lose much pressure, if any, by running up and over instead?
The base of the tank is about 200mm higher than the tap will be, and the top of the tank is head height, but the internal take off could be anywhere between those two.
Question 2)
Sort of related ...
I'm still trying to prove which pipe is the right one to "T" off.
There aren't enough clues in the tank cupboard so it's a case of turning the CH off, running hot taps, etc ... but we're still not 100%
The tank has three connections and I'm hoping someone can say "yes that's typical, in which case blah blah" ....!

Connections are:
1) near the base.
Think this must be cold fill.
2) 3/4 of the way up with a T ... Upward short limb to release valve (bit like a rad one but bigger)
Lower limb a long run down into the uninterpretable depths.
3) Off the top, also almost immediately to a "T"
Upper limb goes right up and over, and open ended, in through the lid of the big cold reservoir in the loft.
(If I run up and over it won't go as high as this one, so I'm hoping it won't be disrupting what looks like this open pipe's job as a vent.)
Lower limb is my prime suspect for my hot "T"
(How many sugars with that?)

Question 3.
If I end up having to include the tap in the take off from a pump (that the shower will be getting) can I/should I be getting a two-in-two-out pump and fitting "Y" connections down line?

I WOULD describe more of the overall system but I think this has gone on long enough! ........
in advance

 

Come on @Merlin Cat , where are you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Standing outside looking longingly to the skies no doubt ;-)

 

Top of tank is hot water outlet. Yes you can run pipework through loft. You would need to prevent airlocks so when you t off top of cylinder take pipe down a couple of inches then go up.
Bear in mind if your fitting a shower it needs to be(ideally) a low pressure (or pumped) shower

 

The hot water is highest outlet on the cylinder

The nearer you go to the cold tank in the loft with your run the less pressure you will have,don't expect to run a shower from this.

If you want a shower you will have to pump it,

The best place for a pump is the floor next to the cylinder

If you have to fit the pump in the loft it needs to be a negative head pump which will work ok.

 

Thanks ... Good to know I was working in the right direction!
The shower will definitely need a pump as the current bath mixer behaves like it has a dodgy prostate!

 

Negative head it is then as I'm hoping to keep what noise it makes to my Dad's room by putting it directly over the ensuite, as opposed to in the boom box of an airing cupboard where the tank is.
Two in two out +"Y"s if the sink needs the pump as well?

 

If you move your cylinder into the loft. You will need to lift the cold water tank above it ,so that the cylinder can fill.

You could if you have room lift your cold tank up to give more pressure anyway

 

You must have 50 gallons of cold water in the CWST so that pump doesn't run dry .The hot and cold water must originate from the same source ,ie the CWST .

 

.... and just for the sympathy vote (plumbers won't care) here's a pic of the nice awkward corner I've got to get into for the "T" (at the back with some insulation and a bit of white paint for good measure) ....

 

Speak to the pump manufacturers to see which pump would best suite your needs .

 

That immersion heater cable looks iffy

 

There is room but I ain't moving no tanks thanks! That's for whoever buys the place eventually ...

 

It does doesn't it ... It doesn't get used however so I'm considering de-plugging it.

 

The CWST (cold water storage tank?) is pretty hefty ...much bigger than I imagine your average car fuel tank is, so more than 50gall ... and it has a ball valve mains feed ... Wouldn't that kick in? or would it not fill quick enough?
As for the "same source" is it not just a case of taking cold off the CWST not the mains, so the input pressures are not too different?
Edit: the only cold taps running directly off the mains are the outside one and the kitchen one ....

 

Careful you don’t hang yourself on the washing lines

 

Sorted!

It's the dratted slatted shelf next for the high jump

 

Almost done

 

Get rid of cold water header tanks and use a mains pressurised hot/ cold water system instead. These use pressure regulator valves instead of a cold header tank. So we have an un pumped shower head which is a couple of feet above the hot water tank. I think the pressure is 3 bar at the cold feed to the hot water storage tank.