Jaywick - How did it get that bad?

Councils are trying that, you even pay rates now if the property is empty to try and encourage landlords to get people in....

 

Agree everything needs changing but I know this won't happen without us changing our lives so dramatically that the vast majority of the population will say "no ta".

Environment - beetrooted
Society - unequal bananas
Hopes - butternut squashed (inequality driving major changes in employment profile).


But trust me I'd love to change this set up, top to bottom and bottom to top change required.
I think nature will force this upon us in good time.

 

You and 8 motorbikes doesn't count

 

Their problem is they're entitled ... Our problem is we have to pay for their lifestyle and 'values' by spending our lives working hard. Cant see that pointing this out is at all snobby. Anyway I've got to get back to work so the next one can have a new 60" TV on me.

 

Exactly . The criteria needs to change in benefits, will be unpalatable for many of the underclass. The basic question is does everybody have the "right" to have children if they cannot a) support thise children or b) even support themselves without financial aid?

That alone will breach many of societies morals and "human rights" but pretty much the breakdown of our British society ultimately books down to that one single question.

 

My Mrs loves kids, she would have 6, we won't though because we can not afford to support them without help.

 

some of these people see kids as a way to be provided for - the kids become their income.

 

I'd rather we didn't get to a point where only those who 'have' can have kids or go to college or uni or get into certain jobs.

But appreciate there is a discussion to be had on population and individual responsibility.

By the way I pay my own way and don't intend to have any kids. So I have no motive in my opinions.

 

To play

That us a great point Justin and there lies the problem. I would like to think though if that "I" had no job, no prospects, no drive, no education, no means or intention of ever doing so, unable to supply food, clothing, shelter to MYSELF without government aid then there is no way I would have kids with an equally feckless mother. Unfortunately, our benefits system positively encourages that.

 

There is no simple way of sorting this other than being financially brutal with them.

Historically this 'under class' were deported to Australia, press ganged into the navy, used as cannon fodder during our many wars or various diseases would reduce their numbers.
Now we can't deport them or send them to a prison across the country because it infringes their human rights. war is very technically advanced now and above their intelligence level. Fatal diseases have been irradiated. Add to this that they are entitled to more benefit and larger houses, the more children they have, the proportion of under class is increasing which has to be paid for by Mr and Mrs Average tax payer.

The third world countries value education and would move heaven and earth to get their kids educated, whereas the under class cannot be bothered even to get out of bed. If the parents eventually get a fine by the court, they just have to steal more beer and cigs to get by. If the fine was paid, it's paid out of their benefit which we pay for!

They do not have to tidy up or keep their houses clean because that is what the council are for. Why should they work as the government pays them benefit not to. Why quit heroin as the NHS gives them methadone which they actually use to top up their usual drugs habit. The government pays for all this in the hope that they will steal less.

As for crime, why should they be bothered about being arrested and going to prison as the police and prison service will have to feed them and collect their methadone as its part of their rights. If their rights are breached they can get legal aid for a solicitor to sue and therefore get more money.

The kids perpetuate this cycle as kis learn their moral code from their parents.

There is no incentive to break the cycle and there is no fear of the law or any repercussions for their behavior.

Many years ago I believed that the laws of the land were there to protect the masses from the excesses of the individual. Now it's all about the rights of the individual over the rights of society all being pushed through by the blame/claim culture.

By all means give as much support as possible to vulnerable people and people who have fallen through, no fault of their own, on hard times. That is what the benefit system was created for.

Sorry if it's all a bit bleak but I'm so fed up other these people ripping off the average member of our society and laughing at it.

 

Git!

 

Vodka more like.
Anyway, better go a find my bottle of port for the weekend, what.

 

FTFY

 

I pray you don't hold with the notion of compulsory sterilization based on potential earning capacity, abortion based on genetic disposition or gender, or termination on the grounds of diminished intellect....(I don't think for a minute that you do btw...) but I'm glad you raised the issue, because ultimately, this is the rational conclusion that social engineers will arrive at, if they place economic values above those of humanitarian ones...
Does a couple with cerebal palsy have the 'right' to have children if there's a statistical probablity that their off spring will be born with the same condition?
Should a woman of 42 years old be allowed to become pregnant, given the increased chances of having a child with Down's Syndrome?
Achondroplasia
Acid Maltase Deficiency
Albinism
Angelman Syndrome
Canavan Disease
Charcot-Marie-Tooth Disease
Color Blindness
Cri du Chat Syndrome
Down Syndrome
Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy
Fragile X Syndrome
Galactosemia
Gilbert's Syndrome
Hemophilia
Hereditary Fructose Intolerance
Hereditary Hemochromatosis
Hereditary Spherocytosis
Joubert Syndrome
Klinefelter Syndrome
Krabbe Disease
Lesch-Nyhan Syndrome
Marfan Syndrome
Muscular Dystrophy
Myotonic Dystrophy
Nail-Patella Syndrome
Neurofibromatosis
Noonan Syndrome
Pelizaeus-Merzbacher Disease
Phenylketonuria
Polycystic Kidney Disease
Porphyria
Prader-Willi Syndrome
Prune Belly Syndrome
Retinoblastoma
Rett Syndrome
Rubinstein-Taybi Syndrome
Russell Silver Syndrome
Sanfilippo Syndrome
Shwachman Syndrome
Smith-Magenis Syndrome
Spina bifida
Stickler Syndrome
TAR Syndrome
Tay-Sachs Disease
Tay-Sachs Syndrome
Turner Syndrome
Usher Syndrome
Variegate Porphyria
Von Hippel-Lindau Syndrome
Waardenburg Syndrome
Wilson's Disease
Wolf-Hirschhorn Syndrome
Xeroderma Pigmentosum
XXX Syndrome
XXXX Syndrome - Rare genetic disorder in females caused by the presence of four X chromosomes rather than two.
XYY Syndrome - XYY syndrome is characterized by an extra copy of the Y chromosome in each of a male's cells.
YY Syndrome - A genetic condition where males have an extra Y chromosome (i.e XYY) in each of their cells....

to name but a few.....

Add to these, those people who, through no fault of their own, have special needs, the blind, the deaf, those with mental illness (temporary or permenant) people with impaired mobility, impaired intellect through accident or illness, people who have suffered abuse or neglect....the list is endless...

All the above are members of our communities the world over...

The orignal question was How do we as a civilised society allow our own to live like this? Now I seriously doubt that any one reading this post begrudges paying a fraction of their earnings towards helping people who suffer from any of the aforementioned conditions...you may indeed be a recipient of some form of benefit, in the past, now, or in the future...you may be fortunate enough never to require additional help. Since these are essentially 'medical' in nature, you may well ask how does this relate to the original debate, ie those people who are capable of working but who choose to claim benefit? I'd venture that if you were to consider the upbringing of each and every one of the people featured in the documentary, you would find a history of abuse, neglect, mental illness, addiction, impoverished childhood, lack of opportunity, care and stability, at some level at least. So before people spout on about rights and entitlement, consider you're own upbringing and how fortunate you've been to get this far without falling...
It's not about money....

 

But why do they get more money than someone that works in a full time job?

 

I'd venture to suggest that those capable of work but quite happy to live the entitlement life style should equally consider themselves fortunate that there are others who are prepared to work and carry them as well.... Compassion is a fine currency but sometimes its something the giver can ill afford to give away to all without question.