Scottish independence.

That has to be THE most unqualifiable statement you've ever posted @Moons
All our histories are inextricably linked, for better or for worse...we hail from disparate tribal groups, and fifedoms who have, in turn, ruled and been usurped by neighbouring groups or invaders from further afield...it's only relatively recently that we've settled on distinct 'national' regions. Moreover, the sense of 'national identity' is a complete fabrication..what does it mean to be Scottish, Welsh, Irish, English? We all trot out the standard platitudes, but when pressed to provide a truly personal interpretation, I'll wager the vast majority will say "well...I don't know really"
I live in Bolton...that makes me a Boltonian...what does it mean to be a Boltonian?
I haven't the faintest idea....

Should Boltonians have a say in how their council tax is spent throughout the region? Yes
Should Boltonians abide by Laws drawn up for the betterment of society as a whole? Yes
Are those same Laws applicable to someone living in the Outer Hebrides? They ought to be.
Does this stop the Parish council for The Outer Hebrides from interpreting these same Laws so as to be more in keeping with their circumstances? No.
Scotland has a Parliament...to oversee 'Scottish' affairs..the legislative needs of Glasgow are a far cry from those of Benbecula, just as Aberdonians will have concerns that never trouble a crofter in Ayr...
The bottom line (for me at least) is that everyone is different and everyone is the same, regardless of where you were born and raised. Localised government should be encouraged, and centralized power needs to be devolved accordingly, but I still fail to see why being 'Independent' will enable Scotland to determine it's own future. We all put our trousers on one leg at a time...(well.... we do in Bolton)

 

Yes Guys Hospital.

I moved to Wales at 2, my mum is Welsh.

I only grew up there, was educated in Welsh and played sport for Wales. I speak Welsh fluently and pretty much all my friends are Welsh.

Your point is I'm not allowed to identify as Welsh?

And people get *******ed off when people move to England and can't speak the language or embrace the culture....

 

Plainly you have not read my posting on balloons....

I don't agree with the statement about national identify as being fabricated...your education was plainly different to mine, you may well have got some ***** about Columbus, we got Glyndwr and the toll both riots.

Fair point on nuances, and links...the Olympics to me made me feel absolutely British.

Not everyone that wants to have their nationality recognised is anti British.

 

It bothers you more than me. I've sung my national anthem and that of my forefathers whilst wearing the shirt. I'm happy with what I am, I had no say in where I was born.

It's a pity that my trying to give a bit of a perspective to some of you to balance out the myopic interpretation of reality is now personal, maybe I should let you (figurative) happily drift along spouting some of this crap posted here in amongst the humorous parts?

Say what you want, think its a wind up all you want.

Wonder where all the jolly japes will be as the disinterest in politics in England leaves you with Sharia law or similar being applied due to abject antipathy (admittedly being dramatic here) of the majority and concerted effort of those that understand power limit your choices.

Maybe then you might get an idea of where I'm coming from.

 

Not disagreeing with you, again, am stating I don't agree with splitting the union, but, I can understand the motion for it.

How is it people can understand the desire to move Britain out if the European Union, even if they think it's a bad idea, yet can't get their head around Scotland etc feeling the same way?

Still hung up on everyone bar the English should know their place/be grateful?

Hilarious!!

 

I'm not angry now any more than I was then - my medication caused water retention, so what?!

I appreciate that some need the collective warmth of the hive at any cost and conversley some of us want to qualify what we say, even if you can hear the tut tutting.

That's all I'm doing.

The Giggs thing has always interested me, my understanding is he was born in Wales and through loyalty to his dad wanted to play for them....I thought this was a good trait, loyalty being a good thing.

It's not like he missed out in winning anything now is it?

 

It feels like up north at the moment! Bloody freezing

 

Dam....I missed that

Why would you think that you're being castigated for saying you're proud to be Welsh? I have no issue or prejudice with anyone, regardless of their background. (Which hopefully comes across...if not, my apologies). I agree that education plays a huge role in how individuals regard themselves in the greater scheme of things.

I don't think it has the same connotations...The EU, rightly or wrongly, is viewed by many as a huge federal super-government, meddling in domestic affairs which ought to be the sole dictat of the home body. Personally, I think that as the world shrinks, there's an even greater need for transnational legislation, particularly on human rights and environmental policies, which demands closer ties...Some will obviously disagree.

Scotland's designs on self determination, are, IMO a different matter. Perhaps it really does boil down to who decides where the money is best spent. Good luck to them if they are successful....I have no qualms with an independent Scotland....but I think that to a great extent, it's based on the short-sighted egotism of one or two charismatic individuals who have capitalized on a moment in time to exploit the situation for their own ends.

In much the same way as Margaret Thatcher took Britain (English, Welsh Scottish and Irish soldiers) into war with Argentina

 

Saw it and thought it was brilliant! Especially when he said to that one guy" what do you think of the rumours that the Muslim council are putting pressure on prince William to call his new baby Mohammed, even if it was a girl!" The guy replied not on my f£(;:/ing watch!!! Brilliant!!

 

it was frightening and funny at the same time

 

I havent read all the posts, but as an English up here I'm entitled to vote on it next year , from what I hear most up here will probably vote against independance, but still want to retain an anti english (though mainly tongue in cheek) stance.

 

Hope you don't think that i was suggesting that
Any reference to Scotland being gratetful that I made, was regarding the fact that they have their own Parliament building, which is heavily subsidized by tax-payers who don't live there and have no right to vote on any of it's dealings...Which however way you look at it is unfair...
My main beef is that the UK government is London centric...

 

Ah, that's not you, thats a couple of West mids layby botherers on the wind up. Castigated isn't the word...just at times people seem to devalue my personnal experience by waving it asside because I wasn't born in Wales, which invariably ends in mirth for them. Whatever.

Regarding this " rightly or wrongly, is viewed by many as a huge federal super-government, meddling in domestic affairs which ought to be the sole dictat of the home body."

That is precisely how Westminster is viewed, couldn't say it better myself. It really is, and look to history and how it flexed it's muscles to underline its power.

Why is everyone assuming this is a financial alone move?

 

No not you....it's a long thread...read it back as there is a lot of stuff in good humour but I think I've condensed how some see the relationship pretty accurately.

Fair point on Scottish Parliment building....shoring up Big Ben next year might balance the books.

Leads me to an example..HS2 has no benefit at all to Wales or Scotland, I'd bet it will be detrimental to both. Yet neither would be allowed to do such a program without it being passed through a parliament hardly likely to pass it. Fair? Scottish and Welsh taxes get spent on Hs2 though.....

 

For Wales? But they were crap

 

you know how to pick 'em @Moons

Who's actually going to benefit from HS2? The first thing 'Business commuters' do when they jump on the Intercity is open their Laptops and work...if it takes 2hours, they work for two hours...if it takes 1 hour and twenty minutes they work for 1 hour and twenty minutes.....makes no difference. It's an affront to the vast majority of people who will rarely ever use it, and who will be paying for it for decades, either directly through higher taxes, or indirectly through loss of other services....