Brexit wasn’t a conservative issue. The majority of conservative MPs voted to remain. Brexit was a free vote, it’s just that the majority of the country had no faith in the other parties actually enacting the will of the people so they put Boris in power with an almost record majority to make sure it happened. Most of those people were in Northern Labour strongholds. If Labour had just promised to get Brexit done then there would never have been a Red Wall landslide. It was Labours inability to convince their own supporters that they’d actually do what the people voted for that handed Boris a landslide. My dads a prime example, life long labour voter, union man for a lot of his working life, never once voted for anyone apart from Labour, he voted for Boris as he said it’s the only way that Brexit will get seen through. He will go back to voting Labour again now. Brexit is seen as a Conservative matter because Labour made such a hash of it.
The vote itself was an informatory vote only, it’s just that the ERG and the other extreme right wingers picked up the ball and ran with it.
Let's for a moment ignore the question as to whether or not Brexit was good or bad, let's at least now discuss the issue based on facts. The EU, just like the UK had elected MPs. We had our fair share of these in the EU, so we were represented democratically. The EU, like the UK had civil servants who wrote the detailed laws that went before parliament to become enacted or not. The main difference being in the UK the MPs propose a law and then it is written up in detail in green and white papers and then goes through the two houses and re-written many times. In the EU the civil servants propose a lot of the laws that then go to parliament and are amended at that point. Many laws enabled the individual countries options and opt outs. So it was the UK who chose not to limit immigration from other EU countries even though we could. Currently in our post EU negotiations with India, for example, one of their conditions is more immigration from India to UK in exchange for trade. What I have never understood is why we in England were unhappy with a parliament of nations in the EU, but are happy to preside/dominate a parliament of nations here and are surprised when those other nations want out!
You make a good point and it was seen by many that the opposition parties were trying to stop Brexit after the vote. I for one, saw it as the opposition parties trying to define what Brexit meant as the referendum question was so vague. But I would agree it was not done well.
Yes and it’s that difference that made me want to vote to leave. As you say here in the UK we vote for MPs who enact the law. We can remove them every five years if we so wish. In the EU the laws were written by civil servants and unelected bureaucrats. In fact it’s worse than that. The council of the European Union proposes who the next Leaders will be based on someone from their own ranks, who they themselves vote in for the next five years. It’s just about as un democratic as you can get. A closed shop voting on who they want to lead them picked solely from the ranks of their own closed shop and unaccountable to anyone but themselves. This group of unelected people are the only ones allowed to propose laws for the EU. It’s utter madness and basically the same structure used in a lot of Dictatorships.
who? oh... you mean that socialist chap. Indeed, because capitalism is working out really well just now!
I think we need to get back to our current shambles of our own making....but just to rest my case (so to speak) The EU commission (equivalent if our civil service) drafts, enforces and monitors EU laws, but it does not pass laws. EU laws are agreed and passed by two institutions: the council of ministers, comprising ministers from EU governments and the European parliament - both elected. I'm not sure how this is not democratic. We may have to agree that we are not going to agree @rustbucket
I’m not sure what you are getting at there. The little dig was aimed at me for pointing out that remainers seem to have developed an unwarranted arrogance when referring to leave voters. That phone in was about Liz truss and her shambolic premiership. I believe she was a remain campaigner. keep up at the back.
Anyway. Here’s my take on things. I want Boris back. Hear me out. We are essentially in this mess because Boris was unable to follow his own rules on not mixing during covid. Rules which I’m pretty sure I adhered to. Rules which prevented me seeing my parents at Christmas and worse still prevented people from seeing dying relatives. When he got found out, after a bit of squirming he was pushed out. Now the tories are almost certainly going to be practically wiped out at the next election and it’s going to be humiliating for them. So given that he never really apologised, would it not be a bit of justice for Boris to be the leader who took them to an almost record majority to almost total defeat? Would that not at least be a bit of punishment for the complete chaos he’s caused. Let’s face it we wouldn’t have had Truss or the financial meltdown if Boris had just followed the rules. Maybe that would be a bit of poetic justice. Boris for PM.
Im pretty sure he will already go down in history as the man that *****ed the Tory party, country, anything with a pulse… he really doesn’t need a second go! Starmer for PM!
Didn't Einstein say running the same experiment again with the same input parameters (in this case Boris) and expecting a different answer is a sign of insanity?
If you remember even further back you would know that Bojo was in favour of the EU Keep up at the back
