Well if thats what £50 per hour welding looks like you clearly don't charge enough mate... I was tempted to say how do outfits like that sleep at night, but the obvious answer is on a big pile of £50 notes....
For 30 grand I'd expect a bus fully restored to the highest standard, painted, recon engine, pucka interior etc...
That's because do a very very good job without pulling people's pants down zed maybe you should move to Bristol a craftsmen like you is what we need .
For 30 k i would expect a resto with every detail like im doing on my bus If i had a workshop and suitable tooling i could take a complete rot box to good quality and solid and ready for paint for 10k However i would probably be on less than half minimum wage whilst i did it
Well this was an intersting read, poor owner and what appallingly bad repairs, hats off to Zed for now putting right. For 30,000 I would want the restorer to supply the bus too!
I've been giving this some thought of late - as far as I can tell the narrative is: She came to you, you pointed out that even at your more reasonable rates it would cost her a small fortune to fix. She then chose to go to a 'respected' VW fixer, who by supposition charges more. Once she get's the bus back - surprisingly it's a crap job. Thinks that make me go Hmmmmmm.... There are no other people capable of sorting it in the 130 miles between where she is and where she took it? No one? Not one classic car or aircooled garage? Or is it that there are a few, and like you, none wanted to commit to something based on budget/expectation? She eventually found one that based on distance quoted probably without seeing it. I agree that the work is well short of passable and that there are grounds for some form of recompense - but then I've not seen the quote or listened to any of the correspondence. But we all seem to agree that the only person at fault is the garage?! Am I the only person that thinks some of it would lie with me if I want to pay X, zed charges less but I choose to go somewhere else I know is more expensive and still pay X, but want an as good quality piece of work? I do feel sorry for this person but I can't conclude that they were completely naive in all of this.
For me this ladies experience is why I feel like I need to do as much as I can of the work on my bus myself. At least then I will know I did my best - better that than someone else's second best And if I really can't do it justice I will be in a better position to recognise quality
From an ex restorers point of view, I'd like to throw in my opinion... I also think there's something a bit odd that someone would take advice/quote from one and the spend twice with another. If this is a well known restorer, who regularly turns out good finished vans....then this is what lies underneath their "quality" vans! I'll bet there's also a bit of the old silver tongue involved and said lady has been sold a load of old tosh..... So she turns up to see the results and is none too pleased, therefore removing the van and going back cap in hand to Zed... I restored two vans for customers, and it really put me off doing it again. I finished both the vans I agreed to do, they were really lovely and I was very proud of them, but I probably undercharged by at least a third on both projects and therefore would NEVER do another for someone else. And another thing..... Whilst that work is bad, and it is bad, I have seen far far worse. How much did she actually pay?
I've come to the same conclusion Grazzer and don't do complete resto's either. The real price as you say should be far higher than makes it worth doing for the onwer and the missing bit is your income. I'm not estimating for this, just doing a bit now and then as agreed with the owner, going as fast as I can and seeing where we get. I hope that by providing good value neither of us lose out.
That's the only way to go, charge fairly for what you do rather than working to a price - I also think that is the way the other garage worked, but whilst they were certainly charging, something rather fundamental was missing.....
So are we to know who this complete vagabond is? save someone else coming across them who's not so well informed?
well, i must say zed, you are noble taking on the devastation. I'm sure every ounce of you wanted to say no, but as you have a good heart you ignored that. Hat off to you mate.
Maybe it will be slightly less pressure finishing the bus in this state, than taking it on from the start ,making good someone else` s badly fitting panels is usually quite refreshing... I would be very reluctant taking on a full resto [unless it was mine]but I would do this.. With the strict budget element ,I would tell the punter when the money runs out the work stops ,it is there fault not going into this eyes wide open...
That's what we both wanted and agreed. From her point of view she doesn't want (more) unexpected bills. From mine I need paying as I go. I have to admit I got an early half day in yesterday as it was just sitting there in the way. Finished the rear corner and inner arch repairs and bunged on some filler. I need to get some primer on before I leave it for another month.
I've drafted a contract with the guy who will be doing the work on my bus. Not a fixed price contract, I'm aware I need a contingency, but, he will be paid for work performed, anything which hasn't been agreed he will have to get agreement from me in writing before he goes ahead and does it. The biggest part of the contract is the recognition of the steps and W.I.P. I will pay for each agreed step as induvidual milestones. Ownership of the vehicle lies with me and IF he goes into receivership the receiver and debtors have no claim on my property as there will be no accrual over time for W.I.P. So if he fails to pay a bill etc he can't claim working unpaid on my job and the receivers can't hold me to ransome. This is legally binding and recognised by the courts.
If you tried that with me I'd probably tell you to take a run and jump. Not that I have a problem with a contract, but if something needs doing, it needs doing and I'm not going to stop and wait for your letter. Or are you paying "waiting for a letter" time as well? I would ring up/txt though, or normally, take the bullet and just fix it within the estimate.
At first glance I thought the same, but actually what Joker is doing is very sensible and works well for both parties. We all know these jobs go wrong, there are plenty of restorers who get the figures wrong and end up losing a load of money - I've done it! What you can't do is give an all in price for a total resto..it simply isn't possible on these old things - everything takes twice as long as you expect! If you agree a price for each job as you go along then when you finish it, you get paid for it - simples... If something else turns up you get to quote for it and get paid for doing it, instead of doing it for free.....ahem Zed.... This works for both sides, but, as an owner, if you insist on doing it this way, you'll end up paying a lot more - however your risk is far lower and you are in control. Mmmm - it's a difficult choice.
I was thinking much the same. Depending on your restorer, different tactics are needed. What can happen if you go for a detailed estimate is your restorer will only quote for what is obvious, then your bus gets chopped to pieces and you get a call saying it'll cost twice as much or 3x. What do you do then? - your bus is chopped into an unsaleable mess and you already owe the restorer £x for that!
