Large capacity type 4 build.

Discussion in 'Modified Shizzle' started by CandyCamper, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. That's what we have in our westy.

    I have a plan for rebuilding it now opposed to going Subaru powered.

    76mm crank, 96mm pistons and barrels with Camper special spec cam, heads etc. Come September Ill have time on my hands to rebuild the motor :D
     
    CandyCamper likes this.
  2. Think I have settled on a 78mm crank married to 96mm pistons, for ease and reliability. I shall use the the Scat C25 cam.

    It will be on carbs.....as yet not sure which, I was in hope I could use the F.I system from the GD lump, but it's in poor condition and I'm told the system does not respond well to cams and capacity increases.
     
    77 Westy likes this.
  3. that should be a nice spec, I will be watching how you get on :)

    Ive been chatting to someone over on thesamba and he's running FI on a 2284cc type 4 with no issues. Once we strip our FI off we can see what condition its in and decide whether we refurb it or go for carbs :D
     
  4. Lol you'll as likely beat me to it or at least be building at the same time.

    I'm not planning on having it ready to fit until Feb 18 and to be fair need thattime to accumulate the dosh for the parts as I have a few other non VW projects ongoing. Hopefully I'll have them both stripped cleaned and the parts inspected for serviceability before the summer though.
     
  5. We've got the bodywork to sort out first, then running gear followed by the motor after that. Upholstery and interior last. I'm in no big rush, slow and steady and all that!

    Ill follow with interest :thumbsup:
     
  6. Which rods and pistons are you going to use? I’ve gone for KB hypereutectic pistons with 22mm pins and 5.325” H-beam rods with VW journals.

    A Scat C25 should fit with a 78mm crank but it depends on which rods and journal diameter you choose - you might have to change to a smaller base circle cam if there is interference. Crank (or rod) to cam clearance gets tight with a long stroke.
     
  7. I haven't looked to deeply at brands yet, however this kit looked like good value....

    https://aapistons.com/collections/h...e-plus-engine-rebuild-kits?variant=1066706371
     
  8. That kit is very good value but be aware that 2618 forged pistons while very strong and will resist detonation damage they’re soft and ring groove wear could be a problem, they also need a lot of bore clearance due to their high expansion rate so the engine might sound like a bag of nails until it is hot. And before you buy the kit ask what length the rods are, the gudgeon pin diameter and position of the pin in the piston (compression height) to make sure all the parts are actually compatible.

    The Performance Plus Engine Rebuild Kit spec is really for a high compression engine in a lighter car than a bus, you don’t need forged pistons and a light weight flywheel is not beneficial for a bus. I’d see if AA would sell the kit without it - or supply a stock weight one if you need a flywheel.

    I choose Hypereutectic cast pistons because they’re more than strong enough, they’re hard, don’t wear quickly and don’t have a high expansion rate like a 2618 alloy. BUT they don’t tolerate detonation.

    I looked at the AA Performance Engine Rebuild Kits but the rods are too short and the gudgeon pin is too low in the piston IMO. https://aapistons.com/collections/h...cts/vw-type-4-performance-engine-rebuild-kits
     
  9. I can't help but think you'd get the same performance out of a bog standard 2.0 but with modern mappable EFI .. a decent blueprinted 2.0 should more than enough
     
  10. Enough? Enough for what? You?

    A well built and fettled 2.0 with modern efi may be sufficient for some...... ( and almost as expensive as a bespoke build ) but for me I see no reason to conform - my bus is far from light and I want effortless grunt to get up hills...... why will a well built 2.0 achieve the same as a well built well specced 2.3?
     
  11. As I said I'm far from done with my research. Thanks for that though, I don't need a flywheel at all, Crank, rods pistons and barrels are on my list.
     
  12. A mappable 2.0 with EFI will have more BHP and torque than a 2.3 on carbs .... run cooler and not conform to what everyone else is doing ... I'm just offering my opinion not having a dig or telling anyone what to do
     
    Majorhangover and Lasty like this.
  13. I'm not fussed about BHP, torque is my aim. Have you any experience of a 2ltr of bespoke efi? To back up your assertion?
     
  14. If I ever get my gearbox back from the supplier i'll be able to get mine on the road and dyno'd and let you know what a stock-ish 2.0L Megasquirted lump puts out, still busting to see your supercharged build running :)
     
    CandyCamper likes this.
  15. Yes, a 2.0 is more than adequate, I’ve even read of someone fitting a supercharger, totally unnecessarily, normally aspirated is enough.

    Oh wait…

    Isn’t that…
     
  16. Did you really mean to write that? Where is everyone hiding?
     
  17. I seem to recall @zedders wasting his money on a large capacity type 4 that only puts out almost twice the standard numbers......
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  18. I should be interested to hear! What's the rough cost of the megasquirt setup? Is it significantly more than a pair of decent carbs? I will be enlarging the capacity....... but I like the thought of FI if it can be done sensibly.
     
  19. Fuel injection from VW Speed Shop is £2195.00 plus delivery, fitting and mapping. http://www.vwspeedshop.com/product.php?productid=16830&cat=394&page=1

    And a full engine management kit from The Dub Shop using MS2 V3 Megasquirt is $3,349.95 plus delivery, tax, fitting and mapping. http://thedubshop.goodsie.com/complete-kits

    With sufficient knowledge to put a system together using second-hand parts I’m sure it could be done cheaper.
     
  20. In my experience don't buy any megasquirt stuff from UK suppliers if you don't want to pay double the price! No change there then... Not having a go really, the idea of MS really is to do it yourself, it was a MASSIVE learning curve but it is all there if you dig and dig and google until you are blind...

    • I bought my MS as a kit from diyautotune.com which i then hand soldered/assembled to the specs that I wanted (its all online) luckily I managed to save some wedge on postage as my mate had a friend coming over the pond and I had it delivered to her.
    • I used a toothed trigger wheel from thedubshop.net @lhu1281 uses the same kit I believe.
    • My engine was already L-Jet so i used the original throttle body and intake runners/central airbox, the injectors were no good as they were high-Z but i realised that the later T25 injectors were low-Z so sourced some off ebay in the states.
    • I fabbed up a simple intake manifold and bunged a K&N on the end, with an intake air temp sensor just after the filter.
    • For engine temp the old l-jet one was no good as it used the engine ground (high current) and MS needed a 2-wire sensor, i realised that the cylinder head temp sensor off an old BMW bike was the same thread diameter and pitch and was a 2-wire connection. boom
    • For ignition I used 4 stick coils from a suzuki bike, these are hooked up to a spark driver box that I made from 4 x BIP373 coil drivers, its running in "wasted spark"
    • I used an innovate LC2 wideband controller and senor from diyautotune, put the lambda sensor in the muffler.
    • I put an on/off solenoid valve between the runners and the intake for fast idle when cold. This was a mercedes fuel tank vapour EGR valve from ebay
    • I also managed to find a genius in alberquerque via thesamba.com who took my manky throttle body completely refurb it new spindle/butterfly/bearings and he also machined it to take a 3 wire throttle position sensor off an E46 BMW

    I reckon it cost me about £400-ish all in including the work on the throttle body, but nowhere near as much as just buying it all from a UK supplier because I basically put the system together myself out of various different ebay junk, I had the various intake runners and manifolds etc.

    I did all of this in the summer as well as converting my bus from auto to a 6-rib, however once i finally got the wheels on the ground and started to tune the engine which was running ace I found to my dismay that my expensive recon'd 6-rib had no 4th gear.

    had to drop it all out and send back to supplier, that was in early August... yellow snowed off doesn't cover it as I'd bust my ass trying to get it on the road for my wedding car and this ruined all chances of that :(

    i'm kinda waiting until i'm back on the road before i do a build thread on here, hopefully this spring/summer if i get my faulty gearbox sorted out...

    and.. breath... ha ha :)
     
    Majorhangover, lhu1281 and 77 Westy like this.

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