Jolting Ride

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by Little Nellie, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    You're doing the right thing.

    Here's confession. I once serviced someone's engine and forgot to tighten the distributor clamp after setting the timing. Easy to check if you haven't already. :)
     
  2. Sounds like complete gibberish to me. You’ll easily get over 13.7 on the supply. What on earth is “over-amperage”?
     
    Coda likes this.
  3. Little Nellie

    Little Nellie Supporter

    Funnily enough the bolt that secures the distributor to the engine was loose, so I checked the timing with a strobe. It was 16 btdc. I adjusted it to 8 and tightened all.

    It may need further adjustment soon as I’ve effectively set it on a lumpy engine idle.
     
  4. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Someone will be along to rightly say that the timing, particularly with your type distributor should be set at full advance.

    But having said that, common experience would indicate 10°BTDC is where it would then idle with 009s. That would speed it up and make it idle better.

    16°BTDC is alarming as it translates to approx 38 degrees of advance at 3,000rpm. That kind of advance quickly causes damage to the piston crown. How soon did you spot the timing was out?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
    snotty likes this.
  5. mikedjames

    mikedjames Supporter

    The poor little transistor in the module doesnt like too much heat or too much voltage.

    Overdoing the supply voltage causes both more current to flow and the kick voltage increases when the 'points' open.
    The too high voltage causes the transistor to turn on again when it shouldnt and turn energy from the coil into heat.

    The high current through the coil when the transistor is on when the points are 'closed' also causes heating because the transistor doesnt work as a perfect switch but still has a volt across it. So it produces maybe 2 to 4 watts of heat normally.

    If it gets too hot, the transistor will be permanently alterered, all the way from going open circuit to going short circuit.

    Somewhere in the middle is a point where e.g. the breakdown voltage drops so the transistor begins to limit the spark energy .



    You can also cause potential damage by testing the setup by pulling off a plug lead and making a big spark jump.


    And this causes all kinds of wierdness.


    I suspect based on the electronic behaviour of Pertronix and Accuspark (show similar electronic waveform signatures) that they are probably re-packaging of a module produced by a third party, with appropriate scene tax depending on brand.
    The fact they both self destruct with the wires swapped is another sign - it would be possible to add protection circuits and make that a selling feature but it hasnt happened.

    At least Accuspark provide heat sink compound for their retrofit modules.. although if the distributor body is hot it wont help much..


    Basically if your ignition system is all good then any module will last a long time, but any faults and heat will reduce their lifetime.
     
    Little Nellie likes this.
  6. If you set it statically with a light bulb (if possible with your ignition module), it won’t matter about lumpy idling.
     
    Little Nellie likes this.
  7. But anything up to about 14.5V is a “normal” supply.
     
  8. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    I'm just wondering if the OP realises the mark on the pulley is a timing mark and not TDC. :thinking:
     
    Little Nellie, snotty and Coda like this.
  9. Little Nellie

    Little Nellie Supporter

    250 miles
     
  10. That looks like a Pertonix I. I have the same module in my spare 009 dizzy. Minus the most of the label because it came off and the rotor then ate it. The 009s are supposed to be timed at 3000 rpm, not at idle.
    I took mine off and fitted an SVDA with a new Powerspark module. Night and day difference to driveability although I could hardly say it was 'kangarooing' around.
     
    Little Nellie likes this.
  11. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    But... see my post above about the timing mark. I suggested it because mistaking the mark for TDC produces 16°BTDC. In other words it could have been correct for those 250 miles. That way if you then adjusted you would have no advance and a very slow lumpy idle.
     
  12. Powerspark were on the phone. Your module is due to pack up next Wednesday.
     
    Little Nellie likes this.
  13. I think I have a spare set of points somewhere...
     
    snotty likes this.
  14. Powerspark number 1 ignition Johnny! Give you big spark, long time, you bet!
     
    Norris likes this.
  15. Little Nellie

    Little Nellie Supporter

    So I’ve basically measured with the strobe at idle. Aligning the flashing white mark on the pully with the black scale, 8 degrees before tdc.

    I reckon this is ok because when I got my engine back in the past from a local expert, I taught myself how to use the strobe and it was flashing at 8 using this measuring method
     
    Zed likes this.
  16. Little Nellie

    Little Nellie Supporter


    I haven’t driven it for more than a mile after adjusting, maybe I should move it back to my 16btdc as going back in tomorrow
     
    Zed likes this.
  17. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Type-4 I beg your pardon.
    Then 250 miles with that extra 8 degrees of advance...you didn't hear it pinking I imagine. It's not always obvious.
     
  18. Little Nellie

    Little Nellie Supporter

    I didn’t notice any pinking
     
  19. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    No don't put it back but tell him you found it at 16 when investigating why it wasn't running correctly. I hope he's a decent guy who can admit his mistakes?
     
  20. mikedjames

    mikedjames Supporter

    If its idling very fast, 16 BTDC is within the range of timing you will get just on centrifugal advance, if the 850RPM advance is 8 degrees..
    .
    Back it off to 8 degrees idling at e.g. 1100 rpm actually without checking its idling at 850rpm and you end up with maybe 3 or 4 degrees at 850 rpm..
     
    Little Nellie likes this.

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