I'll tell you what will kill the forum......

mummy's boy 40s blokes living at home? take your pick. All a bit of a wind up to me.

 

Ah, I get it now.

 

I still feel like a newbie

 

I made the comment - it was a literal observation made over a number of years based on a number of places I worked.

Plenty of bell ends that never left their parents homes, or periodically ended up there for whatever reason - you know the sort, experts on the management, global economies, vaccines, etc etc.

More often the class clown who never left school, with a trapped audience of younger people - who get properly upset if challenged or exposed.

It wasn't a comment aimed at anyone here - I have no idea on peoples home lives on here - but it wasn't a comment made to wind people up either.


The behavior I believe is called hazing, or some form of rite of passage.

Never been a fan, appreciate there are exceptions, but most often its literally to put people in their place and keep them there - you don't often find the busy people in a team bothering, they simply want to get on, the 'hazer' is usually not in the top echelon of a team.

Some of the justifications e.g. if they can't take being sent out to buy tartan paint, they won't be able to hack this job when the going get's tough is utter nonsense. You could as simply prove that by giving the person a meaningful task and seeing how they get on - the reason that rarely happens is a fear that actually they'll do it really well and expose the 'hazer' as not the superman they want to be portrayed as.

The issue with hazing is it carries into all walks of life.

I coached rugby at a good level for many years - I always banned hazing and initiation ceremonies - I see zero value in making someone 'welcome' by compelling them to eat dog food or drink until they vomit.

Good teams are not built by one or two undeserved 'leaders' keeping everyone in their place.

 

It's a defence mechanism as you say.
For the sake of discussion:
What do you expect someone who has reached their limit of their wit to do when outclassed? Knuckle down and accept they're a bit thick? Why would they when the path of "bullying" exists and helps them climb a little higher by treading on someone's fingers? Human nature.

A good friend of mine who was built like the proverbial toilet block once explained to me that I could win the argument but that was irrelevant because he could simply kill me - then who's the winner?

 

Your friends would have gotten on just fine in the medieval period I guess - but in an apparently lawful society, especially one where they have machines and weapons to even up physical advantage, Hulk can't simply smash, Hulk needs to use Hulks brain. Unless Hulk is a doorman or a cage fighter in which case he only needs to keep an eye out for bigger and harder Hulks.


On your first point - 100% agree. I only take umbrage when they act a certain way when called out on it.

As I mentioned earlier - I think the VAST majority of people that bang on about free speech, Woke and PC as terrible things don't seem to realise that we live in a world where our manners and how we conduct ourselves is defined by care and consideration and often holding back which stop us telling them that we think they are thick edited for swearing sake.

 

PC = polite and considerate, now isn't that the best definition

 

Can you honestly say that your progression through and beyond the grass roots of Welsh rugby did not involve any participation in sexism, racism or initiation?

 

Just the one friend actually, but he was also as sharp as a knife. Back in the 70's/early 80's violence was more of a thing than it is these days and depending where you lived and where you went of an evening he had a fair point. OK "killing" was exaggeration on his side to make his point but back then he wasn't really wrong either. Seems to me that there was a notable amount of young men looking for any excuse to smack someone, it was most definitely part of growing up. "What you looking at?" "You looking at my bird?" etc etc was so common it was normal.

In fact when the pubs shut at 11pm on a weekend, the following hour was known as "smacking hour" as idiots who hadn't pulled in the pub looked for an outlet to vent their frustrations (or impress the birds) on their way to a club.

Pretty sad. I think we've moved on but then I'm not 18 now so maybe not.

 

I don't see it as excuse, more of playing out the common role models of the time, including their own parents and extended family.

Back in the 70's society was still heavily influenced and controlled by the generation that went to war, with all the discipline, brutality, bullying and violence that they had experienced.

 

Excuse in their own minds. You're right - kids played war with toy guns, footy violence was epidemic - fighting was normal and TBH grudges were not held - fighting back garnered respect so I'd say bullying was a very common "test". Not much fun if you failed to stand up for yourself but standing up for yourself didn't really take much either - just indicating that you would do so was mostly enough even for weedy kids.

 

I remember my friend Pete, a devout catholic, was bullied by some arze who insisted on meeting on the playing field at school for a scrap. Pete just stood there and let him hit him - arms by his sides. after a few minutes, possibly not even that long, Pete had a bloody nose and a black eye but the bully was crying! Bully never regained any respect he thought he had and became quite a small and sorry person. He was made to look like a complete idiot. That was an eye opener.

 

Ah well, suppose I'd better get on with some mindless labour - I've become encamped here again recently to avoid doing so.

Tidy....

 

My ex wife is black, I coached women's rugby for 17 years -and as stated I don't like initiation and all that bulls**t.

Did I witness it - yes.

Did I participate in it - no.

Was I more naive back then - of course. Young lads (especially) are like water - they fill the container into which they are poured. You change society by challenging the generations that control it - often we let the very worst of us build the container - we shouldn't.

Our generation can also change society - check this out:



Is it PC? She was playing on merit - there is no hiding place in sport when its game time.

Did the coach and the player change the perception of that group of young men - you'd hope so. I can't comment on whether the message will stick - but for all men with mothers, daughters, sisters, wives - it's an education.

 

No one where I worked still lived at home, in their 40’s, that I can remember. It was so well paid, that everyone there that I remember, had their own place. We even had a ‘extra money’ payment every week, called ‘house payment’, which was devised to help pay for your ‘ home improvement’. ( it was written as that on the wage slip’ ( ultimately, you spent it on what you liked). It was on a grade system Mine was an extra £26.00 a week, I think. If you were a printer, it was more, but the printers were treated like kings, and the four colour printers, even more. I was just maintainance/forklift operator, but I was still pad well. There was no one having a go at me though. But we all still took the mickey out of each other. It’s just what happens, with a load of people in the same place.
If you saw some of the physical stunts that went on down there, too…
And don’t get me started on what used to happen to the apprentice’s when they finished their time.

 

I once worked for a national newspaper where they were moving one of offices out of a city centre to an out of town office block.

They had around 70 years worth of crap left behind - including all the HR files before it all went into the computer rather than on letters and notes.

Some of the complaints were off the chart - it was also and eye opener reading the infighting between different ethnic groups who apparently hated one another.

 

There was deffo no racism down our place, I remember a few different ethnic minorities, but we all got on great. Did you work in Tootin Mitchem, as we used to have a printers footballers league, and we played there once. We lost, but we drank their bar dry and the opposing team couldn’t understand us. We literally sang them out of their own club!
( we also had a police escort from the Fleet services on the motorway on the way back, too. More banter)…

 

No, it was Birmingham way.

Automation and colour had moved the press out of the centre of town a few years before….the building still had the print hall, but most kit had been moved by the time I was there.

The new place, now also long gone, had far fewer staff back then that the old technology needed.

 

Blimey!!! Gammon... eggs.... not Vegan friendly are we! (too WOKE?)

 

What…like Pans People on TOTP?