Have our leaders decided we dont really need our Armed Forces?

Cos they are behaving like they have.

Why are our politicians don't doomed to repeat the mistakes of previous generations and not listen to their own experts. Money can be found for vanity projects or frittered away in lining the pockets of their mates.

This isn't new but its in the media:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56386446

 

For comparison the number of battle tanks the British army have is around half the number it sent into battle at Cambrai in 1917 and less than a quarter of the number we used at El-Alamein.

Any tankies on here?

 

I don't know anything about tanks, ships are more my sort of thing, the number of Royal Navy frigates and destroyers is a fraction what it was in the 80s when I joined up.

On tanks the Guardian reported, the UK nominally has 227 Challenger 2 tanks, which, after two decades, are at the end of their life, although the total deployable force is understood to be half that. Interestingly 30 years ago 221 were deployed to the Gulf for the first war, so we couldn't do that again.

 

Why do we actually need an army?
Are we planning to invade another country?
Is anyone planning to invade our country?

 

It may be that in modern warefare airpower has reduced the need for tanks as they cant even hide in fog, the dark or woodland any more.

 

It depends what imminent threats there are I suppose. I think our armed forces were seriously run down in the run up to WWII but Churchill recognised the threat Hitler posed and was a driving force in bolstering our capability for when the time for physical conflict came.

 

There was an interesting prog on R4 I happened on in the last few weeks talking about the threat from China and Russia in terms of cyber warfare. Will see if can find link....

 

and also been in the press about them building up their navies.

 

That applies to both sides with IR and thermal imaging but and let's face it if you put the whole of Nato tank forces together it is a large deterrent plus AT weaponry it more than matches the 13000 Russian
I agree there is cause for concern with UK forces number, look at HMS Queen Elizabeth and the flotilla required to protect her which is undermanned.
We do need a standing army, governments have a tendency to talk tough knowing they have a good well equipped military to sort out the problems they cause.
And as for The proposed European Army.
Waste of money and how standardised would be the equipment.
We should be rearming to counter the threat from Russia and China and there is a real threat and believe in Nato.

 

The main problem for the RN is with the number of escort platforms i.e. frigates and destroyers, we only have 6 destroyers and the 13 frigates are now 20 years old. Looking at the HMS QE intended deployment to the Southern China sea this will include 2 destroyers and 2 frigates, reading the press there is also going to be a USN destroyer and I think I have seen an Australian one might be joining too. Even if we have enough aircraft we don't have enough escorts to run both carriers at the same time, that is if you allow for maintenance periods etc. I suspect the numbers will fall further once the review starts.

For those that decry the services just remember when the pandemic kicked in who provided staff to build hospitals, run logistics, test lorry drivers, run test and trace centres, undertake vaccinations. All often done at a moments notice on low pay and unsociable timing.

 

True, and a fantastic job they are doing. But if we were fighting a war, would they have dropped their guns and come running back to help us with the pandemic?

What we need is a reserve force of useful people who could do normal useful jobs rather than learning how to kill people which could be called into action as and when disasters and emergencies occur.

 

Sometimes it is useful to have a force who have learned to kill people. When you need em you need em you cant just pull em out of a hat. When you watch the fighting in the Middle East you will see the combatants are strangers to the sighting systems of the weapons they are using, that is why a well trained western army will always win.We must always win.

 

Er .. our tanks are a bit old .. but we has nukes.

 

So where do these people suddenly appear from and what happens when they dont like what they are being asked to do. Its why the military involvement works, they just crack on and get the job done.

 

Oh yes we know .. The civilisation reset button nipper
I tell ya I’ve enjoyed my life the only thing that would of improved it is if I was born 10 years earlier because then I would be at the end, now that this country is screwed ..

 

haven't you stopped moaning yet

 

Don't mistake old for capable, the challenger 2 is an awesome tank and has the fighting capabilities equal or better than many of the ones it may have to face. it is numbers we lack.

 

People have been saying that for centuries...

 

I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, ``We serve no red-coats here.''
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:


O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Tommy, go away'';
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.


I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music 'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!


For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Tommy, wait outside'';
But it's ``Special train for Atkins'' when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's ``Special train for Atkins'' when the trooper's on the tide.


Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Tommy how's yer soul?''
But it's ``Thin red line of 'eroes'' when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's ``Thin red line of 'eroes'' when the drums begin to roll.


We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;


While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an ``Tommy, fall be'ind,''
But it's ``Please to walk in front, sir,'' when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's ``Please to walk in front, sir,'' when there's trouble in the wind.


You talk o' better food for us, an'schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.


For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Chuck him out, the brute!''
But it's ``Saviour of 'is country,'' when the guns begin to shoot;
Yes it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool--you bet that Tommy sees!


Rudyard Kipling