Electric bus

Now you tell me…

 

Well any price is negotiable. Would like a few bites to be able to start that conversation.

 

That’s interesting. So a T2 type 4 is strictly for a T2 and can’t cross over…

It’s makes the target market a bit easier to define = good. But the target market isn’t biting = bad!

 

The T2 Type 4 engine could be fitted into a Porsche 914 or a VW 411 but it’s a bus engine specification and not many would do that. Your market is really only the bus market.

When I fitted a 2.0l in my bus about 15 years ago I sold the 1.8 for £100.

 

In my 1974 VW engine service manual it describes the two variants of the 1800 engine, at the time there was no 2000 variant.
To summarise:
Bus: Lower compression, dished pistons, lower max RPM for peak power, 70HP.
Car version: Higher compression, higher max RPM for power, 90HP

 

Problem! And I’d appreciate the insight of VW T2 experts on this one please.

I had a coupler made which is an adaptor which sits between the Leaf motor’s shaft and the VW transmission’s shaft.



it’s very well made, and a tight fit on the Leaf (had to tap it on quite hard), and is a good fit on the VW cos it’s made with the clutch centre from the bus.

Here’s the thing, the number of teeth / splines on the disaster bus (1600cc) is different to my proper bus (1800cc). I used the clutch centre from the disaster bus of course…

Bugger and arse etc.

was that obvious? well maybe if you know, and now I do…

So my options -
1) get another one made - costs money, and the guy I know will do a good job is in Canada, so will take time.
2) change the bus transmission? Or just the centre shaft?

This is where any VW insight would be appreciated if you have thoughts.

I would really prefer to use my 1800 transmission. It’s relatively low miles, and presumably built to be more robust. But I don’t know the insides of the transmission and what scope there might be to change the shaft from the disaster bus’s 1600 transmission into my 1800’s.

It also prevents me selling the old 1600 transmission once it’s been dissected.

I’m kinda thinking out loud and it’s leaning me to option 1 I think, assuming I can get the coupler off the leaf motor!

Happy to hear any thoughts you may have!

EDIT- please ignore the sound of a man panicking. All is well. I just lead myself down the wrong alley. I agreed with myself it was all wrong. I checked an old photo which confirmed my fears. But stupidly checked a photo showing the Leaf end of the coupler, which is indeed different to the VW.

Motor now roughly mounted (snigger) in the rear (snigger snigger), and all is well again…

 

That would have got me too, I had no idea they were different.

 

Actually. I think I am panicking unnecessarily and my cold brain is just getting confused

it may just need me to try a bit harder.

it wasn’t going on, I thought there was a problem, I checked an old photo but think I was looking at the wrong thing. It confirmed my fears, but I had just led myself down the wrong path.

will update again later.

 

Normal service has been restored.

Progress…



That lump sitting in the fuel tank space is the ‘PDM’. Power Delivery Module. Kind of a HV junction box where charging cables join and HV goes to /from the inverter on its way to the motor. Some say it’s over engineered and too big, but as mentioned before, the path I’m taking, is sticking to the standard OEM parts to make this ‘simple’, Hah!

Followed by the mounting of the motor and inverter to the VW bell housing. And only slightly derailed by yesterdays panic attack



Still need to tighten up bolts once I’ve decided cables are able to get where they’re going.

Then add the moustache/ support bar with the new rubber bits to replace the old knackered ones. And that will then need a finely crafted metal bracket to bolt to the support bar and join to the motor.

Does that slightly polished and tarnished metal make anyone else think of the Terminator robot? We’re they T2000s or something? Am I creating a VW T2000?!

 

BTW, what’s a boy to do when his bell housing has a big round hole where his starter motor used to sit?

Now where’s that lid gone to the overpriced instant coffee?

 

So does the coupler you had made fit then? Are the splines the same between 1600 and 1800 transmissions?

 

Yes it does and yes they are!

I just wasn’t shoving it hard enough Although in my defence, asking a 60kg lump to line up at the correct angle, up/down, left/right and nicely slide into place is as easy as it sounds!

When it wasnt working, I fed my fears, and found a photo to prove it was all a disaster, but the photo was of the other end of the coupler, so I led myself down doom alley before I stopped to think properly.

 

Easily done I’m sure! I was fairly sure all aircooled clutches were interchangeable until I read your post, and then I doubted my memory

Less thinking, more shoving for the win!

 

Brakes…

I need to ponder this, and input welcome. Obvs, in a normal setup, the by-product of the engine is a vacuum which travels down a vacuum line up to the front. I have a brake servo and master cylinder.

bad photo…





Since some idiot has removed the combustion engine, there’s also no vacuum. So I need an alternative. This is well known in EV conversions and there’s 2 approaches. There’s a decent write up on the nicer approach using an electric brake booster that replaces everything - here for anyone interested…
https://bratindustries.net/electric-brake-assist-for-the-electric-datsun-720/

But unfortunately with time against me I’m going for a the simpler to implement option which is an electric pump and keep my current servo and master cylinder.

In many setups people also pair a new vacuum pump with a reservoir. This means the act of using the brakes depletes the vacuum from the reservoir (about 3 goes usually) before the pump needs to start up again to build up vacuum again. The pump is going to be a bit noisy, so reducing its run time is good.

I’m not necessarily going to use this, but here’s a kit of parts showing what I’m talking about.
https://shop.fellten.com/shop/brakevackit-brake-vacuum-kit-13489

So I have a question if anyone is knowledgable on this stuff from a vw perspective.

How much vacuum does a VW servo hold? If there was no replenishment of vacuum from a petrol engine, how many goes of the brakes do you think it would assist with?

Is it possible that I don’t need a separate vacuum reservoir and I only need a pump to feed the servo? I’m struggling to get this clear in my head!

I’m also pondering the positioning. Space is tight and not easy to work in up front where the servo is. Might be better, and also quieter if the pump was at the back and I reused the normal vacuum line.

I realise this is non-standard stuff, so I won’t hold anyone to what you say, and I’m partly thinking out loud here. But if brakes are your thing, appreciate any thoughts.

cheers

 

So I installed one of these to replace my missing vacuum.

it’s a bit noisy which I was kind of expecting. Normally these kind of noises are lost amongst all the other engine noises, but when the motor is whisper quiet, it really stands out. There’s another way to do brake assist but it’s a bit more involved, so I’ll think about that another time.

what’s a bit more of a problem is that somewhere I’m losing some vacuum. It takes about 6 secs to create the vacuum, but with doing nothing, 1 min later it runs again for 2 more secs to ‘top up’ the vacuum. Whether it’s my pipe seal, or even the master cylinder I haven’t started looking into yet.

when pressing the brake pedal it immediately runs again, so if I stick to this approach I probably need to add a vacuum reservoir to sustain multiple brake presses, as at the moment I’m not sure if I needed multiplie brake pumps it would be quick enough.

 

I’m a bit dense when it comes to final drive gear ratios. Anyone willing to share their knowledge? If I’m in 3rd gear with my setup (using a 6 rib trans) what’s my ratio? Or how do I go about working it out?

 

I’m overdue a proper update. Plenty to share, but I’m currently driving around the block to see how it behaves. Some things to sort out but it hasnt blown up. Which is nice. I’ll write up something more detailed at some point soon.

 

…and sold the big petrol chuggy lump at last!

My engine from a Swedish T2 is off to Wales to be fitted into a Polish ‘74 panel van a nice man called Dave is restoring.

Picture is of engine on pallet waiting for my tractor to lift it up in the air to make ‘sliding’ into the boot of a car (no joke!) a bit easier

 

Click bait! It’s a real image and I’ll explain more shortly, but first… A Public Service Announcement.


I’m sure most people following this tale are just interested, maybe even with a box of popcorn waiting for some interesting cock up. That’s all fine! But it’s also possible someone gets the EV conversion bug and sets off to do their own. If that’s you, read on…

High Voltage kills.

There’s plenty of people filling up YouTube and other corners of the internet doing conversions and it’s easy to get drawn into this as an ‘easy’ project to take on.

By all means go for it, but here’s some questions to ponder when you watch those YT videos.

Is the guy using any PPE?
How do you know if what he’s doing requires it or not? Did he explain whether he isolated parts of the battery pack and what the worst case voltage he’s exposed to is?
When you look at any tools or protection, do you think he’s using stuff certified for the voltage he’s working at? How would you know?
If he’s doing it all wrong, will he post the episode where the garage burns down with him in it?


Here’s some of the stuff I’ve got…

Class 0 rubber gloves (marigolds don’t cut it I’m afraid), plus cotton inside to absorb sweat.
Face mask - because as long as your mouth is shut, the wettest part of your face are your nice moist eyeballs. That’s where 350V might decide to jump to if something went wrong. Might kill you, or just leave you in extreme agony. And blind obvs.
Insulated tools - rated for 1000V in this case.
Multimeter - 600V




Bear in mind that some conversions are ‘only’ 120V. So there’s some reduced risk in those projects. But you need to be able to understand what you’re looking at to make a judgement.

Do I wear all the PPE all the time, no of course not. But I make an informed decision, and then add a dollop of extra caution on top in case I’m wrong.

Am I am an expert? Nope. Just a hobbyist, so you should equally wonder whether I’m giving you the right steer here. Maybe I’m not. So how are you going to reach a level of understanding to make your own choices? My suggestion is you do a course.

Institute of Motor Engineering has courses. This is what I did. I chose a place where I knew the owner happened to also be into conversions, both professional and personal, so thought it would be a good place to learn.

Fellton - completely immersed in the EV conversion world for many years and supply professional EV conversion shops, but also run courses. They know their stuff.

So if you’ve still reached the point of wanting to do this ridiculous project, make sure you have plenty of space that you can protect from curious hands, and cats, and sparrows, and delivery couriers, and anyone else who thinks hi-vis means they can wander anywhere they like.

And then spend a year thinking and watching and learning before doing anything. My own personal prejudice would say that if you’re in your 20’s or 30’s, don’t do it. I think it helps to have gained a bit of life experience and to know when to be very cautious on something you’re doing. And if you’ve got kids they will absorb so much time you may never finish the project you start.

But good luck!

Thank you for watching this Public Service Announcement on behalf of the please-don’t-blame-me-if-you-fry-your-eyeballs-party. Your normal programming will resume shortly.

 

Excellent advice, and something I have been wondering about. My nephew is a trained modern EV specialist, and often warns me off when I mention doing conversions, as I can be a bit of an animal at times lol

My single cab is currently being TDI’d, but I do keep looking at the ready made battery space under the load bed

I think it’s going to happen one day, when dirty diesel is too expensive to buy