Hi everyone Now I have your attention , I Just wanted to get a little feedback on your opinions of whether size matters or not. I am referring of course to Engines ! How underpowered is a 1600 on a bay ? Does a 1641 give much more top end or does it just help on getting you to the top of a hill before you start rolling back ? Is a 2 litre the best option overall because of power and similar consumption ? Which is more reliable ? Which is easier to work on ? What is your opinion on types of conversion ? We are a family of four, all of whom are growing (children in height, wife in beauty and me around the middle !) and we have a small dog (a Westie of course.........no seriously). Berlin's seem to offer the best layout because the cupboards are all down one side but what do you think ? If you have the time to give some feedback, it would be appreciated.
Two of the biggest questions you can ask in one post. It's worth having a search through the forum. There's been a lot of good threads on these subjects. I went for a full width bed because I'm a big bloke is all. The difference between a 1600 and 1641 is negligible compared with what you can do to tweak performance. I'd go say twin carb and exhaust over an engine swap for value for money. I think the bottom line is any engine in good condition will get you where you want to go at a reasonable speed. Don't expect 'modern' performance without spending serious money. But, that isnt really the point for most. Cheers s
Of course size matters! And you did ask about conversions too. I use to be a purist but longed for extra power and reliability. There's a few of us here on TLB who've either had Subaru conversions or are about too. A lot of us have had a professional conversion, using the same company, Fellows Speedshop near Birmingham (check them out on Facebook). The most common Subaru engine conversion is the EJ20, the 2 litre. With the right tweaks, that should give you around 150 to 160bhp. The right place to put the radiator is to build it into the chassis rails - you'll get no cooling issues there at all. I've heard of some other companies putting the rads in the engine bay - I've heard of cooling issues there. The Subaru engines are mated to the original VW box. The 1600 VW box is OK, but the two litre 6-rib box is considered the best (it's stronger and longer-geared). Personally, I went for the EJ25, the 2.5 engine, kicking out 190 to 200bhp. And she absolutely flies. The standard disc / servo brakes cope adequately with the extra power and the only mod being done is to fit some Spax adjustables (even that I'd say you don't really need). The thing is with Subaru engines is that they're flat fours, so they sound remarkably like (very powerful) VW or Porsche aircooled engines. In [glow=red,2,300]FACT[/glow], set up right, they sound absolutely fantastic. They look nice too if done right. I'll post a pic later. Cost? Depending on what engine and spec you go for, a professional conversion will cost you 5 to 6 grand.
And there you go! 2 main schools really. Stock and performance. A standard 1600 in good condition with maybe a simple twin carb and exhaust will cruise on the motorway at 70mh and make reasonable progress up hill and down dale. Mine does. MPG on these is appalling so it's getting less practical as an everyday vehicle but I'm guessing that's not what you have in mind. It's definitely fun to go the performance route but it will cost you big money and might not be the vibe you're looking for. It's not an economical option. They are expensive investments these days. Stock will hold its value better, specials are worth more to a small niche market. Easier to work on isn't an issue. mechanically they're all pretty similar. What are you thinking of spending on one? If I had the money I'd have a fleet (after I'd got my country pile, start of the art workshop and and and)
its all down to choice, budget, and what you want to do with it. We will all have our biased view. If you want cheap and cheerful and an engine anyone can work on stick with the upright type 1 1600 motor. You can warm that up any way you wish. I jokingly refer to them as lawnmower engines - I moved away from type 1 engines a few years ago to the type 4 and wouldn't go back, not saying i'm right or wrong, just my choice. The type 4 is much maligned by garages and mechanics - really because they don't really know them, its just a beefier version of the type 1. I love them. Then you can go the other way to a bespoke conversion, like a scooby. Each have their positives and negatives. As for conversions, how long is a piece of string - I personally couldn't cope with the cramped confines of anything smaller than a full width R&R bed. When you consider westy, also consider quality and weight - its solid, and probably weighs twice as much as a Devon interior, for example. It depends on how big you are, how you like to sleep etc. Good luck
i'm a keep it stock 1600 based man a 1600 with a good exhaust and twin carb set up suites me well the bits are cheap and it's easy for me to work on at home the engine has enough power for me to keep up with the modern traffic on our Cornish roads my MPG is in the 20's with low 30's achievable on motorway driving compared to a scooby conversion i would have to do many miles before the few more MPG broke even and does a extra 1/2 an hour drive on something that is nice to drive as a bay matter on a long journey ?
Thanks everyone. I wish I did have loads of money but alas..... Budget is around the £9-12k but really depends on what the money buys. A good sound body (USA) with unknown mechanics, original paint and an interior I can repair/rejuvenate would be one end, whilst a van with mechanical history and maybe recon engine/gearbox with a good interior and documented bodywork and paint might be worth the extra stretch ! Either ways it needs to be MOT'd and able to be used from day one as the family do not want an out and out project. Then there's the awning, cover, wheel clamp, stereo, BBQ, etc etc etc. I guess engine wise it will be more dependant on what is already in the van. As stevesplatto said, "any engine in good condition will get you where you want to go at a reasonable speed" but if it is a 2 litre type 4 I might get there a little quicker ;D cheers for the comments, maybe some of you guys will be at Battlesbridge this weekend. If I see a Late bay logo on anyone I'll be sure to say Hi.
How old are the kids? Put them in an awning leaving you and beautiful wife with a little more space (an privacy) in the comfort of the camper? I have a 6 month old baby who currently sleeps in hammock over cab area, and when big enough she will be going in a hammock in the pop-top, then i guess into the awning. I have a Devon conversion by the way, although not many original bits left. I have a type 4, 2L engine. I have never driven a type 1 engine but mine does seem considerably more powerful particularly up hills. Don't view 1600 type 1 engines as being under-powered, as has been mentioned they get you to where you want to go, its just that type 4s are more powerful. Having said that, have just had it rebuilt (with a few extra tweaks) and there seems to be noticeably less parts available for type 4 engines and more expensive, although this situation does seem to be improving with their increasing popularity. There are a lot of cheap(ish) options available for a type 1 engine to improve performance. Hope my ramblings help.
Hi all, just coming back to this post with a more specific question. Does anyone out there run a Westy Berlin with a 1600 ? Nearly all I have seen have the 2l FI or with carbs but I came across a nice looking one with a recon 1600 in it. The bus is pretty much all my budget so I cannot really be looking at replacing engines so I need to be pretty confident that a 1600 will move a Berlin OK (I understand the downside of the Westy build quality was the weight ?). I've been looking for a bus all summer and many have said the right bus will find me ! Well I have looked at a few now and although some were close, they never felt 100% right. Are they like Public buses ? You wait ages for one and then they all come along at the same time ? Maybe I am just a picky sod.
A 1600 will shift the Berlin, afterall that's what VW decreed would be the correct engine so why argue? Just be prepared to be chugging along with lorries and getting slower as you go uphill. Just remember you are driving a VW, everything is done slowly and at a leisurely pace! I'd suggest getting the best van for the money, one you'll be happy with and is practical for you. After using it for a bit if it's not practical, too slow, uncomfortable you can always modify it. One thing you will quickly learn about VW's is that you can pretty much modify or renovate any part of it.
I think twin carbs set uphelps on a 1600, a 1641 is better as long as the bottom end is up to it as the latebay guys that know stuff has said, Also how much you want to throw at it. if moneys no object stick a porche 6 cylinder in it. or if you dont want aircooled a subaru 2 litre injected conversion is an option.
