I’ve removed my engine to fix the leaky bits over winter. My van came fitted with a deeper sump but I’ve been thinking about getting rid of it back to stock. Is it worth keeping?
Is it a stock motor? They don’t really do anything. There is “just” more oil there. I can see some benefit in a race motor. Better pick up when going around corners. In a bus putting around? Yeah, nah. Chuck it.
I caught mine very slightly (didn’t notice) once on a “sleeping policeman “ in France, drained the oil out and only spotted it on the campsite by the slug trail I was leaving. I’d ditch it.
Does anyone remember/ still have that Keeping Your Bus Alive series they ran in Volksworld a good few years ago? In the first one there was a “How to do a service”, I’m sure the bus they showed had a deep sump and the blurb called it a “sensible addition”. I knew nothing about any engine then, let alone a VW, so I assumed they must be right. Of course now I know if VW didn’t put one on in the first place the likelihood was that it didn’t need it. So yep, I’m in the “bin it” camp
It might not be easy to "just bin it" because the oil pickup is longer for the deep sump. I've no experience though, just guessing.
Yes it’s a stock motor, going to add twin Weber’s but that’s it. I’ll take it off and see what’s happening under there. I also though it might be a source of more oil leaking so better to remove another possible weak link!
I've looked at deep sumps for my 1956cc T1 Westy and read a fair few articles - entirely agree they are not necessary on a standard engine. Interesting points in addition to what's already been mentioned; More oil means there's a potential service interval gain - not really useful seeing as you're average VW enthusiast never pushes their mileage limit between oil changes but you never know. The engine will take longer to warm up with the same heat energy input but will eventually get to the same temp. subject to a slight cooling from the extra surface area of the sump and its fins. Lowering the oil level in the crankcase reduces splash lubrication and cooling which I think John Maher mentions when discussing oils and oil viscosity as not good a thing although that article was about why you shouldn't use synthetic oils and it probably doesn't take into account a lot of the mods being done to cases now with extra galleries being drilled or modded (hoover mod etc). My conclusion - I'd like a deep sump on mine, its full height suspension bus, 1956cc as mentioned and fairly high compression and I pull a trailer as well as haul a lot of camping gear and regularly cruise european auto routes at speed with higher ambient air temps - but i'm not desperate as it does ok temp wise and I can always slow down or stop when i'm on holds. Its in my "nice to have" box when I get round to it. Best cooling mod I ever did was get my twin Webers properly set up on a rolling road and also mentioned to the tuner it needed to run cool so they erred on the rich side.
Weren’t the bigger add on sumps designed more for rail cars and dune buggy’s fitted with oil breather boxes? They helped the oil cool the engine better for The angles they got to going up and down dunes, etc…not going from the parking space, to the toilet, on a rainy day, in a field somewhere…
Always thought they were a bit of a con myself apart from the hard cornering gain. The oil from the main sump falls through a hole around the pickup tube then gets sucked straight back up by the pickup without having a chance to mix with the rest of the deep sump oil or get cooled?
Hmmmm I thought that the deep sump thing was a good idea so a few years ago I bought one, cheaply off ebay as it happens, for my 1600 type 1 engine. I never fitted it and I'm not so sure now, listening to all the experts on here. I think I will stop in the garage for a bit longer.
My bus came with one fitted. I have thought weather it's needed or not. (I don't think so, else VW would have put it) I've learnt on here... "if it aint broke..." so I'm leaving it, doesn't cause me any bother.
I think the main benefit of a deep sump is to slow down the temperature changes of the engine with a larger mass of oil and metal to heat up and cool down.. Not so much for overall cooling. If you only ever drive for about half an hour, you will see a benefit, but after that time , everything will have finally warmed up and the benefit is less. Plus some of the deep sump oil pick up extensions arent always completely airtight, so you can be losing oil pressure sometimes. With a lowered bus, the deep sump wasnt an option. The external oil cooler and filter certainly work for their living, the cooler holds oil temperature down. The oil filter catches bits of engine from time. Having whacked the oil cooler air scoop that hangs down about 10cm a few times, I am sure that a deep sump would have gone in disgust by now.
