Bad news for lord congi

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2021-01-15/a-turning-point-in-wild-camping/57692

 

We're next for something along these lines - it's only a matter of time before the powers that be get wise to the fact it's illegal in England/Wales And start enforcement.

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I think that that may well have already happened - google the new law on 'intentional trespass'.

 

Is this what has sprung up in the papers this week about criminalising travelling caravan groups?

 

It's another little removal of people's freedom.

 

Overnight stays are one thing, but many of the wild campers in Portugal couldn't be moved on....they have just turned into shacks that may at one time have been a vehicle.

 

Yep

Don’t be fooled by the ‘aimed at travelling community’ stuff, thats a tiny part of a much bigger picture and this law doesn’t make a huge difference to outcomes for those instances.

The trespass laws have always been misrepresented in what they actually say. This law, coupled with the right to congregate law will mean our right to protest things like stupid rail lines through areas of natural beauty disappear.

Still, no wind farms in Surrey, no tidal barrages in Pool harbour...

 

I wonder if this ban will extend to open air brothels.
One holiday we were driving back to Porto from Maledo and decided to hop down to the coast and get a final good fish meal before home.
The road took us through a wooded area where we spotted a large beach umbrella with a well dressed lady standing underneath, after dismissing it as a bus stop we spotted lots of said umbrella's either side of the road all with young well dressed ladies beneath them, some were vacant, no doubt gone to pick mushrooms, this was in a space of 2km there was no other reason, no table with strawberries for sale no local bakery selling bred just well dressed young ladies all smiling at passing cars, so it was either a road of ill repute or the local ladies car appreciation society.

 

Have you got the postcode...

 

This was reported in the Telegraph a couple of days ago, knew I had read about it https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...tional-trespass-private-land-become-criminal/

The important bit to note seems to be police will be able to act sooner as the threshold for intervention will be dropped from six illegally parked caravans to two.

I suspect if you are wild camping in the wilds on your own where there is no one about you will still be able to get a nights sleep

 

I'm not a legal expert by any means - my understanding of trespass was that there is no such thing - trespass on land that isn't obviously owned by anyone as opposed to a dwelling such as a house that is, which is covered by buglary etc. or land that is fenced off and hard to access.

If you are on someone's land unwittingly, you can be asked to leave and if you do, that is the end of the matter. If you refuse to move and chose to stay, you can be charged with aggravated trespass, where you would have to be removed by less than your own free will.

Breaking in to a park for example - they have to prove it was secure, and you broke in, that takes time and they usually use other by laws to get you moved on.

This law is pre-emptive to all the above.

It will be interesting to see how its applied, as as stated, I think its way more far reaching that just gypsies.

 

It's a long time since I studied the law of torts including trespass and back then it was a civil matter. At the moment my understanding is you have to go through a legal process to remove people from your land and that being civil matter the police will not get involved, I presume making it a criminal offence is to make removal quicker and for the police to be actively involved.

 

@Moons in a legal term it sort of doesn’t exist , it’s a civil matter which came down to losses of some kind essentially , if no damage nothing to claim , making it an illegal act I assume means that there doesn’t have to be loses in order to pursue them

 

Cool - so that marries with my understanding - so if they cause damage to the point of entry, then that is a criminal act, separate from any trespass itself.

I've just had a read around - so aggravated isn't triggered by refusing to leave, its Intentionally obstructing, disrupting, or intimidating others from carrying out ‘lawful activities’ whilst you are trespassing.

This new proposal changes all that - this is from the Guardian:

For example, the first question asks: “To what extent do you agree or disagree that knowingly entering land without the landowner’s permission should only be made a criminal offence if it is for the purpose of residing on it?”It’s a perfect trap. If you agree, you consent to the curtailment of the traditional rights and lives of Roma and Travellers. If you disagree, you consent to the criminalisation of something much wider, which, throughout English history has been a civil matter: trespass on land.




.

 

That would be criminal damage, for example cutting a chain or lock off a gate, proving it, very different story.

 

Reading round the subject it appears that this is being brought in to stop cases of intentional trespass, quite clear who it is targeted at. I'd imagine that will sit separate/additional to trespass as a civil act and as we know it. If you make it criminal the police can round them up, arrest them and then you can then establish criminal sentencing, fines, prison, secure assets, etc On the civil trespass you cant drag them straight into any court/justice system and even if you get a party to court, the award will be in damages that is the hard part to prove, establish etc I think because you'd have to prove exactly who had done it ... he did it, no it wasn't me, no it wasn't me ... and relatively low value.

The Open Spaces Society have just published something which I will read later.

 

Are laws of trespass different in Portugal where this legislation is being proposed, I would imagine it is where English (because there is no law of trespass in Scotland to my knowledge) laws are far removed from Portuguese laws.

 

To be fair, I've seen little of the "romantic" image of wild camping in Portugal..
they tend to be car parks, taken over by motorhomes and resemble gypsy camps without the heather.