Morning Latebay Legion. Recent issue with the van. Having set the timing and tuned the Weber 34's it was purring along beautifully with plenty of power. However after a short spell at 60 we suddenly experienced a massive loss of power resulting in a motorway call out. The engine was turning fine but just couldn't get going. Fuel or (electronic) Ignition was my theory but just as these road side rescue arrived I turned it over and it sprang into life, was once again purring away. The breakdown chap obliging followed us to the services and with a nod and wink said "it looks as though I've fixed it, so if you breakdown again it'll be 'something else' we can still get someone out to you". We continued on gently with trepidation hoping it was some dirt in the fuel line. An hour later same problem. After another wait it was fine. Once home the timing was out (4btdc) the dizzy clamp was tight and nothing else amiss. How is that possible? I think I've fallen foul of the cheap Accuspark electronic ignition which we've discussed in previous threads. Some have stated that there isn't sufficient heat shielding in them and the build up causes failure. I'm going to swap out the dizzy put a Petronix 1 in the old one, carry spare points and chuck a flame thrower coil on for good measure. Does anyone have any other theories I should be exploring alongside this one? I'm also about to swop the electronic fuel pump back to mechanised with a proper pressure regulator which should isolate anything on that side. Yours sincerely, Baffled By Bays. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
i don't think timing being out would cause that, it would just run bad all the time. could be debris in the tank, blocking the outlet?
That sounds extremely like the hot Accuspark syndrome - wait a bit it cools down and starts working again. Were you by any chance driving at 65 mph or more, benefitting from the Webers? I still use Accuspark because they are cheap , but I have had this kind of failure - but in my case it would start OK once, then not start at all. The Accuspark should be bedded on thermal grease in the distributor. But inside the potting there is no thermal grease, so the little electronic module can get very hot. I suspect originally when they were designed, they had the grease, which is why old modules still work. But I believe the usual "out of sight of quality control anything goes" philosophy of modern low-cost manufacturing has struck them.
I use accusparks ignition modules and never had a problem. I got plenty of thermal grease with thought. If I had to buy electronic ignition modules again, I would go with this instead, https://poitouretroelec.fr/ Made in France by a single guy, not by the bulk in china. I asked if I could use a low impedance coil ( like Valeo 245022 or Bosch 0 221 119 030) with and no problemo. If it breaks, going back to points is a matter of minutes.
Firstly it’ll still run absolutely fine at 4btdc, timing at tickover isn’t that critical. Pop the coil off and check it with a multimeter, I had 6 used spares here but only one checked out ok, put it on and it fixed problem instantly!
May be the Crapuspark. Try it with points. Or…may be the coil. They don’t fail often, but they can go open circuit when they’re hot. Then work again when they cool down. Don’t buy a Flamethrower.
Sounds very like what happened with my electronic ignition, if not identical. Changed to a new one and it’s still going 5+ years later Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is an amplifier connected to the points - it replicates the timing jitter of the points+distributor. It also suffers from timing drift if you do not have the heel of the points wearing down at zero rate. In the normal points, the metal and the plastic heel are meant to wear at the same rate to hold the timing constant. Because only the heel wears, gradually the points will close up, and in fact faster than if the points were taking current and the metal were vaporising away too. Because you do not have the points arcing then the condenser can be deleted, as its job is to draw current around the points until the gap has opened enough that it will not arc. It is a very basic thing. Essentially one transistor and some resistors. But it will work, and be very reliable provided you keep on adjusting the points. If the guy had said it had a Hall Effect sensor in the distributor, that would have been a proper replacement for the in-distributor Pertronix/Accuspark etc, as having the hot switching circuit somewhere like the air-cooled fan housing makes a lot of sense.
Sorry to drag you all back to this one. I fitted a pertronix ignitor 1 to my existing accuspark dizzy and got good results until I didn't. I'm not happy with the build quality generally now. What did someone say.. crapuspark?? The old adage of you get what you pay for is ringing in my ears so I'm now looking at either a refurb bosch 034 which I can pop my existing pertronix ignitor into or a complete pertronix distributor... Another idea was a 123. A few queries Has anyone got one of these on a type 4 engine and what model did you go for? Was the set up as easy as ABC? Was it worth the extra cash? Thanks for all the advice and opinion thus far it's been invaluable. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
They don't seem to have a great reputation for reliability. You don't need a super-duper coil. A boggo Brazilian Bosch will be fine. Or a Beru.
The amount of bling you add is directly proportional to the amount of time you'll spend waiting for an AA truck in the dark If you can find a decent refurbable Bosch, that would be fine. Or a "new" Mexican 034. Or a 123, in which case you can forget about fiddling with dissys forever.
If I'd been with the AA and not the RAC I might have cut that time even further. After the journey I had (3+ hrs on the hard shoulder of the M6 in the dark and rain before the rescue even arrived to begin its 'emergency response') never touching a dizzy ever again seems worth far more than 123 are asking. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
yes i have a 123, its the VW-R-V with vacuum advance. i think @zedders steve has the fancy bluetoothy tune+ one but i didn't think that was necessary. setup, yes super easy. worth the extra cash? yes i think so, fit and forget. 123 Ignition | The Late Bay
Just sell a kidney and buy a 123. Do you really need two of them ? Re breathers: I connected mine to my tin-top air filters using a rubber grommet in the lid with 90º hose connectors pushed through them. Works pretty well. If you've got cast air filter tops I'd either drill a clearance hole and fix a fitting with a nut on the other side (with the risk that it might come undone and be ingested by the engine), or tap a tapered thread into the top cover. 3/8" NPT is good and allows you to fit a 1/2"/13mm hose (from memory). 3/8" for breathers is what CSP recommend. Can get suitable taps from eBay for not very much. If you are taper-tapping into thin material, just cut a few threads then check the fitting for tightness. If necessary, tap a bit more. With thin stuff, if you go mad you'll end up with a hole that's too big. Worked on my CB breather tower These folk sell all manner of fittings. A bit pricey, but good. https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/hosefittingsuk?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
I`ve got an ancient Lumenition optical - it`s brill Ok - bare with me ... Cutting a long story short for the first 8 years of ownership i ran a 009 on points , eventually using it as a daily and got lazy meaning the points weren`t getting set so i bought a Pertronix Ignitor module which ran faultlessly apart from the flat spot . Move on another 12 years and after LOTS of fiddling trying to sort the legendary flat spot i bought a cheapo 60 quid Accuspark dizzy which transformed the pick up from tickover and seemed smoother throughout so that was another move forwards . At some point in the last 5 or 6 years i bought a 80s/90`s optically triggered Lumenition from someone on here and just stuck it in the lockup thinking i`d `try it one day` . That day came last year during lockdown when i got bored and fitted it to a decent Bosch `034` supplied (beers pending ...) by @Valveandy and once again a VAST improvement - especially ticking over . Had the Lumenition and 034 not been any better i`d have continued with the Accuspark and probably gone over to a 123 eventually but the optical jobbie is spot on and the accuspark dizzy is in the van as a spare ... Point being @Bobba , you can skip all the tinkering and messing around i`ve had for the last 20 odd years simply by fitting a 123 , might seem steep but keeping these old buggers running is all about eliminating possible problems and a 123 seems to eliminate distributor related ignition issues - fit and forget (apparently...). Just my tuppenceworth ...
I'm definitely on this journey @Lasty thanks for the help towards the obvious end game. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
I have the 123 tune+ and as robe says it's not for most, you would need a specific reason to want one. A std 123 will be fine. I also have a stock 034 with a very old pertronix 1 for spare which is also fine and dandy up to the point it wouldn't do something I wanted it to but that was fine tuning.
