Shootings in Paris

How do individuals become 'radicalized' to the extent that they are prepeared to take the lives of other individuals, against whom they have no personal grievance? For a start, they must work from the premise that those individuals belong to a defined group- collectively, they represent the enemy, their existence, behavior, moral and cultural values are in direct opposition to their own beliefs. All beliefs stem from a specific ideology; this ideology is introduced and reinforced through education. Sometimes it goes against the grain of our better, humanistic judgement, but sanctions, punishment or fear of social ostracism serve to quash any protestations. 'Our' ideological system has given rise to standing armies and weaponary, the capabalities of which can wipe out entire populations in an instant...that's pretty 'radical', but we've come to accept it. The perpetrators of these attacks consider themselves to be soldiers, as do the uniformed men and women serving in professional armies. There is no difference as far as I'm concerned...they all point weapons....it comes down to what is deemed socially acceptable. My apologies to any readers who are or have been serving members in the armed forces. As long as we continue to perpetrate the myth of 'us and them' the war will continue, by whatever means....there is only 'us'...question the leaders

 

Watched BBC 10 o'clock news last night. 39 minutes about Paris. Absolutely nothing else. They must have rescued all those people trapped by earthquakes. Thank god!


Or is the beeb filtering its stories to manipulate our feelings?

Personally, I feel that all the publicity and fuss made over these attacks is oxygen to the terrorists. They must be rubbing their hands with glee as the whole of facebook turns red white and blue. "What clever chaps we are, lets do anothet one" they'll be thinking.

 

The purpose of our standing army is to keep the peace and defend the country. There is no myth. I believe that these people arent like me, or you. Rationalise and judge these people by your own standards if you wish but they aren't like us, they are differen. There is no love, nor empathy nor sympathy for anyone. They are disafected radicalised individuals with a belief system which has nothing to do with our way of life. They want to kill us, they want to draw everyone into their holy war, they want to die. They murder indescriminately regardless of race or religion for no purpose other than to widen their war.

What has kept the peace in most of europe for the last 70 years has been the principle of treading softly and carrying a big stick! Clearly our interests abroad and actions over a long period of time have resulted in us being blamed, or held responsible for many issues around the world and theres some capital in that but hell these people are talking about the crusades (no need to quote George Bush I know). I wish to remain safe. For my children to have a long and happy life.

On Friday night into saturday morning my eldest was recieving messages from friends in Paris to say they were ok. Shed gone to bed early as she was unwell and didnt know what was going on. They are all ok bar one! She is critical in hospital after being shot. Shes 19, she was working in a cafe and found under a pile of bodies. Her wounds are surviveable but she bled out , i dont know her personally, our thoughts are with her and her family. Her parents couldnt even get into Paris to see her. Hopefully they are there now. I cant imaging being them.

Im sick of Muslims being trotted out to tell me how peaceful their religion is. Its pretty much irrellevant.

 

Dicky said some of what I had been thinking. When you see the heinous atrocities committed by these people, anyone who thinks there is any similarity between I (or anyone else who served in the British armed forces) and terrorists is quite frankly deluded.

 

^ this

 

Problem with all this is drop in such a nebulous concept as religion into what are basically wars over territory to control and it produces irrational behaviour by the bucket full.

 

I didn't want to get dragged into some of the silly conversations going on here which belittle the issue (not aimed at you potop) but I will say that at no point have I seen any information indicating that IS want the oil for anything other than drawing those reliant on it into their war. They will, of course succeed as most wars for the last 100 years have at least had oil as a strategic element in the conduct of the hostility if it wasn't the actual reason in the first instance!

 

It is easy to radicalise someone. Show that person (in this case a young under educated Muslim) the entries put on Facebook by the likes of Britain First or Patriot Nation in the US and tell them that this is what all westerners think about your religion and your culture. Show them footage of a drone strike wiping out a Muslim family. Fire them up with talk of being a freedom fighter. Give them a gun and off they go. All the information is very selective. Look at what the German propaganda did to fire up the Germans against the Jews.
When all said and done, IS is still killing fellow Muslims left right and centre not just Christians. When the IRA terrorist were killing was it said that all Irish were evil? Then why are all Muslims evil? We're just feeding the IS propaganda.
As for 'Them and us'. Yes there is only 'us'. But mankind are still fundamentally violent creatures. In he other news this weekend a teenager was shot and killed in Liverpool and a cop was stabbed by another teenager in Liverpool. No politics, religion or oil involved there, just basic human nature.
If people do not fear the consequences such as the law or even death and are given the means to carry out such acts, then then will carry out those acts.
As for the armed services being terrorists. Really? To quote George Orwell 'People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf'. Britain is still a relatively safe place to live because of our services.
I'm surprised that no one has yet said that this is all a government conspiracy to push through the proposed electronic surveillance laws as this being said in a previous thread.
Bit bleak but 30 years of dealing with the worst of what man has to offer tends to remove the rose tinted glasses of peace, love and harmony for all.

 

Organised religion has always been about power. Power to tell people what to do and think so that they can be controlled.

 

@Dicky , think your post was spot on, but innocent Muslims will suffer because of this atrocity, at the hands on knuckleheads on the far right, and as Jono and some of us have pointed out, Muslims are being killed in their thousands by fellow Muslims, and don't forget that the Kurds in Northern Iraq, who are taking the fight to Islamic state there, are themselves Muslims. I don't know if Islam is a religion of peace or war, but there are 1 and half billion Muslims on the planet, they're not all trying to kill us.

 

You've got your head up your arse, mate.

 

OK, so I've got my head up my arse and I'm deluded, but as far as I'm concerned, if you ask an Iraqi mother who has just witnessed her husband and children being dismembered by a grenade, to differentiate between an 'act of war' and an 'act of terror', I think she may struggle.
Consider the context in which this particular brand of terrorism has arisen and you'll find that Our governments, Our leaders, backed by far reaching military capabalities, have had a hand in its origin. Would it make a difference to the families of the deceased if ISIL had used a drone to attack Paris?

good opinion article here...http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

 

The 9/11 occurred, what was the origins of that in your opinion?

 

What grenade, thrown by who. There is a need to differentiate. Its called humanity. There is a line. It isnt where wed like it but its there. These events are way over that line. Im not pleased or proud when theres a report that a terrorist leader is killed in a drone strike its another mothers son. Deluded or not!

I do understand your points but what is the alternative. Do nothing. We are where we are and cant undo history. Set your self the hiltler question. Would you pull the trigger!

 

I knew id get dragged in i cant help it. However im out. Last comment is that this was a barbaric act. It legitimises nothing and it may be as a result of previous barbaric acts whether waged by the developed world or anyone else or it may be due to the satanic ramblings of people whos belief system is evil. What i do know is that if our way of life is destroyed at the hands of these evil people and they succeed in bringing their belief system to the rest of the world then humanity will cease to exist.

 

The school gates got locked today ,suppose it is about time....

 

Your right they do all point weapons and I can see where your thinking is with your comments however, I can't see a squaddie walking into a restaurant and methodically mowing down unarmed men women and children ....that's just a cold blooded murderer.
As with the rest of the stuff, I don't trust anyone, anything or anyone's story unless I see hear or witness it for myself.