Oil pressure relief fitted upside down

I am in a bit of a spot! I recently rebuilt my 1600 type 1 engine with a new autolinea case. The supplier recommended some aftermarket high pressure relief springs and a CB pump which I fitted. So far so good, but when fitting the back relief valve I found out after that I put the thing in upside down i.e. with the hollow end up. The problem now is how to get the thing out or whether to leave it and what effect it will have. I have an external oil cooler fitted to the CB Maxi 3 pump. The engine runs and the oil light goes out after a few cranks before I start it and it stays out by the way. The engine has not yet been run for more than 20 mins.

I did try to get the relief valve out but it was not possible and so I thought best to see whether it will come out when the engine had been run and built pressure but this has not worked.

Hoping someone in the know will be able to advise ...HELP!

 

In what way will it not come out? Can you get the slotted screw out? If the piston’s sticky, you can usually pull it out with a large screw+rawlplug to grip it (but difficult if yours is upside down).

PS Stock springs are fine.

 

No need for aftermarket springs, stock manage 50+ psi. Although if the plunger is stuck its probably crooked and not working properly anyway.

I hope that 20 mins was the "cam breakin" running in where you are trying to splash oil onto the cam followers from a crank at 2000 rpm to avoid rapid wear later.

One way you might get the plunger out is to use a good strong magnet firmly attached to a stick. If it isnt well attached, the magnet may end up stuck there too.. did that.. With a new engine block the bore should be clean enough for the plunger to come out without catching.

Pushing the plunger up square with a dowel that fits the hole may also help it come out square rather than tip over and jam.

 

That’s^ a bad idea and very poor advice from a supplier – presumably just wanting to sell parts - and you could easily burst the filter, if you have one, and/or the oil cooler. I hope you’re using a very low viscosity oil. The relief valve wont work upside down, the pressure will be too high and the cooler will be bypassed.

It’s very unlikely the valve is cocked in the bore – you said it was a new case so not worn – and you would have checked the fit before installing the valve and it should come out using a strong magnet, if not you could try removing the spring and cranking the engine over, pump pressure should push the valve down. Then use a standard spring and fit the valve the correct way up, throw the aftermarket high pressure relief springs in the bin.

 

Thankyou all for your advice. I will see if i can source s strong magnet and see if that will get it out as its the flat side down and so nothing for a rawl plug or puller to grab to.

I did see the stuff about springs on various sites and will get some stock ones. I was surprised they told me to get them but at the time did not question it as assumed they knew best and it was because i have a secondary cooler and filter.

Can anyone advise on best oil to use in my setup by the way. I.e. maxi 3 pump, k&n hp3001 filter, empi fan oul cooler.

Thanks all.

 

I use that setup Maxi 3 , mocal thermostat plate on EMPI filter head with an EMPI cooler in a scoop , without a fan, in front of the rear suspension tube.



I use a Golf fitting Mann W719/5 filter from GSF as they are only a few quid. And I run Halfords green goop as its cheap. If the pressure relief valves are working the pressure goes to about 60 PSI cold (JK Preservation Parts 1641) . If they arent, I popped one of the pipes to the cooler off the spigot at over 105PSI on a cold start.

 

You said the ‘back relief valve’, just to be sure were talking about correct one, it is the one furthest from the flywheel? Some people call the front of the engine the pulley end.

Everyone will give you their choice of various brands and grades, monograde, multigrade, mineral, synthetic etc, some will say it doesn’t matter and just use the cheapest you can find and change it regularly.

For what it’s worth I ‘d use a 15w40 in a fresh engine, mineral is fine, you’ll probably change it too frequently to take advantage of a full synthetic. Premium brands usually give more protection because the additive pack is better. So called ‘Classic’ oil may have a better formulation for old engines but are often high viscosity and you may want to avoid that although many recommend a 20w50.

Incidentally, what’s the spec of your engine?

 

The pulley end is the front of the engine The engine’s just mounted back to front...

 

And #1 cylinder is as near the middle as they could get so everyone is confused. The front of the engine is towards the front of the bus. Back is back.

 

Oh, how wrong you are...

 

Big pumps are for people who have done race mods on their cases that require high flow because they use so much and for high flow through deliberately loose-ish bearings.

From experience a stock pump won't see any loss of pressure through 3 or 4m of pipe, a filter, a thermostat and a cooler.

 

Thanks guys - I dropped the oil tonight after the 20 mins first run in I mentioned that I did the other day and then turned my attention to the pressure relief valves. Starting on the one I called the back as in nearest the flywheel which was in upside down I got the screw out no probs and low and behold the plunger came straight out no issues after all that. I guess the prob with getting it out before was assembly lube being thick stopping it sliding down. After the run the oil must have clear the lube away. I did the same with the front one and that dropped out easy too. I am ordering some standard relief valve springs and plungers tonight.

To answer the other questions... The van has an oil cooler on it as when I was green and knew little about the engines 10 years or so back when I bought the van it ran hot and we would take it down to southern France and Spain so I thought it a good idea. It did run cooler when fitted by an outfit in Surrey when I lived up there. It is the one which used the pressure relief valve as the connection which again I hear is dodgey but I think having done the engine build the issues were more than where we went with it and how hard I drive it.

I discovered on assembly of the new engine that I was missing some important cylinder tinware which may have been some of the problem.

On rebuilding it I opted for 1641 cylinders which sit on an autolinea case with the original crank re-ground- I know the issues with 1641 but after the cost of the case going bigger was too much on the cost side. The rebuild was needed as it seized on a trip last summer after no warning on a two minute drive from a campsite to the beach for an evening surf. It was very odd as oil levels and all was fine, all of a sudden a shudder, no oil pressure and seize on a cool engine. On taking it apart one of the crank bearings had disintegrated. I had intended to get the case line bored but the shop that sold me the case said the case was warped, which surprised me as there was no indication of end float and it had not ever cooked to any degree. I will spend some time eventually seeing if the case is ok as I suspect it might be. They recommended the case with the maxi 3 pump, which I have hooked up to the old pipework that was there through a K&N HP3001 filter.

I have twin Webbers on the engine and a pertronix points replacement.

So I don't cock up which valve goes where could one of the gurus confirm where the long spring and the short spring one goes and to save confusion by saying nearest pulley and nearest flywheel would be most excellent for my tired mind.

 

Just gone to buy the pistons and springs but can't see the pistons anywhere. Does anyone know whether I can use the empty heavy duty ones that I have with new springs to return to stock pressure?

 

I’m guessing, but I’d imagine the “heavy duty” refers to the springs, so the pistons should be ok.

 

There is a difference- the EMPI kit has one of the pistons waisted (cant remember reason probably if used with an oversized 30mm pump) stock does not. But the springs are the main factor.

If an engine siezes that fast, it had probably been killed on the run before and the melted metal cooled down then spun up cold , rapidly damaging things.

 

The oil pressure relief valve at the pulley end of the engine has a long spring.
The oil pressure control valve at the flywheel end of the engine has a short spring.
The control valve isn’t particularly important and on late Type 4 crankcases VW deleted it, it is usually closed during operation and is why you could run the engine with the valve the wrong way up – you wouldn’t have got away with it if it were the relief valve. Big pump, cold oil, 2000 revs, something would have burst - probably.

 

I'd use these: https://www.csp-shop.com/en/engine/oil-pressure-relief-system-dual-115-411-104-29441c.html

 

Didn't know you could get new ones, I got some 2nd hand from megabug some years ago

 

OK, Thanks to all again. I order the springs last night and am clear on which one goes where. Just so I am totally clear... the slotted piston is to go to the flywheel end - is that right?