Measuring deck on built type-4

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by Zed, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
    :thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  2. Great! Did you take the other head off or just torque it down?
     
  3. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Torqued it. But driven some more and it is popping still. :(
     
  4. That's annoying :mad: is it good enough to use while you order parts?
     
  5. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Yes, it goes along and it's quieter than it was. I only need it for local journeys really, no hammering up the motorway or flooring it up steep hills required.
     
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  6. Little Nellie

    Little Nellie Supporter

    Should be ok for Popping to the shops :thumbsup:

    Really sorry I just couldn’t hold that one in.
     
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  7. Dubs

    Dubs Sponsor supporter extraordinaire

    Sooo.... inspired by this thread, I thought I would try the solder down the plug hole method of checking deck...

    First thing I found was the solder I had purchased from eBay was a lot harder than I would have liked. No way was it going to squish to roughly half it's 3mm thickness without some help from the heat gun, which was tricky, as it goes from hard to molten drips very quickly...

    After a couple of goes it did work though... IMAG4433.jpg

    I only checked 1 and 4, which where 1.85 and 2.05 mm. this seemed a bit high to me, but I'm guessing there is piston rock in there as well...

    Does anyone know what sort of deck one would expect on a bog standard 1700 variant engine?
     
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  8. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    The stock head cc is 49.5cc.
    Now you need to measure the size of the piston dish. :D
    Then you can work out the CR, look up what CR VW designed, then make a decision.
    2mm sounds too much, the pistons are quite long with a low pin height, I doubt they'd rock 0.5mm.
     
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  9. Dubs

    Dubs Sponsor supporter extraordinaire

    The pistons are domed, not dished. How the Feck does one measure that?
     
  10. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    No idea but I would bet someone on Samba knows. I guess not a lot, 5cc tops?

    2mm deck, 5cc dome, 49.5cc chambers, 66x90, 8.2:1
    Same with 1.5mm deck 8.7:1.

    So what we learn is accurately measuring the deck is best.
     
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  11. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    And the dome. 3cc dome is 8:1 or 8.4:1

    So... you're somewhere between 8:1 and 8.7:1
     
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  12. Dubs

    Dubs Sponsor supporter extraordinaire

    Interesting. :thumbsup:

    I have just found an old Haynes manual that quotes 8.2 :1, so it doesn't sound far out then.

    As this is just a temporary engine till I get the Scooby lump built, I am tempted to leave it at that. Although it wouldn't be much work to have a head of and measure it properly...:thinking:
     
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  13. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    I made mine 94.1mm
    AA tell me their 103 /104's are 93.5mm
    I don't believe I measured 0.6mm out though they were fitted so maybe.

    In my dreams I find stock pin, stock pin height 102mm dished pistons in stock length barrels. They'd save a fair amount of machining costs, leave the heads in better shape and theoretically a 1mm approx copper ring would make up the deck.
     
  14. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Aha, the pin height is 34.6mm, not stock 35.5mm, so there's the other mm ish.
    Barrels 93.5 (AA) - 91.8 (stock) = 1.7mm
    Pin 35.5 (stock) - 34.6 (AA) = 0.9mm
    Total "extra" deck height = 2.6mm
    Though I'm led to believe stock no spacers would be approx 0.5mm deck so 2.6mm + 0.5mm = 3.1mm so at 3.5mm I'm still 0.4mm out from somewhere.
    I blame stroker builders.
     
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  15. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    This is fun.
    There is no such thing as a dished 103mm VW piston but...
    I can get 8, yes 8 x Chevvy 4.060" pistons with 12cc dishes for £150 + import duties.
    Pin dia is in inches but approx 23.5 could be reamed out to 24mm no doubt.
    Pin height is 36.17mm so I'd be 1.3mm wider engine. No problem.
    AA barrels would need shortening anyway.
    12cc dish I could have 60cc chambers and low CR or even almost stock chambers.

    4.060" = 103.124 so get the barrels honed a bit.
    512g IIRC very similar weight.
    The only thing I don't know is the width of a chevvy (or for that matter VW) little end.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-SPEE...129521&hash=item58843ec2d3:g:ptQAAOSwKQ9aAyEG
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  16. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    :thumbsup::D
     
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  17. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    When the yanks quote "compression height" I wonder what they mean as the give different numbers for different rod lengths as if it was a measurement from the top of the cylinder rather than the top of the piston.
     
  18. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

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  19. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    I don’t know, compression height is the dimension from the centre of the pin to the top of the piston. Nowt to do with the rod.
     

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