Large capacity type 4 build.

Discussion in 'Modified Shizzle' started by CandyCamper, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. OMG really that much! I'm sure i only spent about £400-500 tops, but that will include twin throttle bodies etc etc.

    Anyway I'll shut up now I have a bad habit of hijacking threads, good luck with it mate I'll follow with interest... :)
     
    CandyCamper likes this.
  2. Awesome post!

    Respect to you for the ingenuity and perseverance. I'll see how I get along with the build of the bare engine first....and give some consideration to the fuel options nearer the time.

    Your journey sounds long, committing to the engine build inside of 12 months is a big ask for me as I'm generally time poor juggling family, shift work and mountain biking.
     
  3. Those numbers are scary.....I suspect given my anticipated 3-4K a year usage profile it would take a very long time to make my money back over a decent pair of carbs.
     
    chewabledrapery likes this.
  4. thanks for the comments, to be fair I didn't build any of the block @Paul Weeding did that, but i did do everything else. I don't have kids either... yet... ;)
     
    CandyCamper and Paul Weeding like this.
  5. That’s what I thought too. :)
     
    CandyCamper likes this.
  6. Steve had a good idea of what he was doing and vast experience , he`s on his 3rd .... :thinking:

    Interesting comments - good luck with the rebellious streak :thumbsup:


    :hattip:
     
  7. If "Steve" is Zedders...... then reading his thread he had someone else complete the assembly....and given my work schedule that may well be the case for me once I have stripped cleaned and collected the relevant parts, not that that is here or there.

    However it makes no odds to the off the wall suggestion that increasing cubic capacity does not lead to increased power and torque over and above a standard 2ltr.

    As for asking of experince of a 2ltr on modern efi backing up his assertion, I see no issue with that? If it was that simple then surely it would be a well trodden path.....and if he has knowledge to share then please share it.

    Help is greatfully received, random unqualified assertions however deserve explanation or they are akin pub banter....

    Good luck with the interfearing patronising streak. @Lasty .....:confused:
     
    77 Westy likes this.

  8. doesnt really matter what I'm doing or have done I was only giving an opinion not telling the OP what they should do , I'm not really botherd either way just find it interesting stuff ....big stroker cranks and monster B&Ps with H beam rods are one way and yes like Zed and many others have gone this way running old carbs ( Zeds were mine previously) and it works .. it also costs a lot ... I was only suggesting a blueprinted 2.0 with new Mappable EFI would produce the same results on both bhp and torque and maybe cheaper ...but if the OP is set on Displacement then I'll shut up and he can get posts deleted ....we have brushed on mega/Microsquirt prices before and you can do it faily cheap with a bit of effort or using eBay
    Trigger wheels here aren't too expensive but yes you would need throttle bodies etc but again you have expensive or cheaper options ...
    http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/p269.html

    I look forward to following his build
     
    Lasty likes this.
  9. I ask again, sincerely, have you any experience of standard 2ltr lump on modern efi achieving big torque, I think Zedders is achieving 170lb/ft that seems a big ask of a 2ltr?

    If so is that on a standard cam etc? Were VW really that conservative / poor at tuning their engine back in the day?
     
  10. @lhu1281 just offered an opinion / option - and got the reply below ..
    Patronising ??
    Moi ??

    Pot / kettle mon ami ...

    I know someone running standard injection 2l with a modern ecu in a split - ask nicely and i`ll ask him how it`s done .

    Zedders got @Robert Parry to do the machine work and final assembly as he was tooled up for it and just up the road . Steve knew exactly what he wanted , deck heights , valve sizes , combustion chamber
    profile , case cut-outs etc etc ...
    And ...to his credit , had a very gentlemanly attitude to one of the `reputable` builders who fleeced him previously !
    Takes more than a trawl of the internet to build a good one and i really do wish you luck .

    :hattip:
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
    MorkC68 likes this.
  11. Experience ...no .... But that doesn't mean theoretically it won't ..... My current build is a 1700 WO supercharged with EFI Type 4 and I went that way because I helped a guy machine and build a big stroker type 1 engine that cost a lot on 40's and made 101bhp and can't remember torque at full chat on RR and I thought a modern 1.0 engine has more ... My EFI uses motor bike throttle bodies with Eaton supercharger and mini R53 injectors .....EFI cost around 500-600 and throttle bodies £35 eBay ...tune it via laptop .....cooling worries me with big CC but you can covert to Porsche cooling
     
    Lasty likes this.
  12. Interesting!

    I too am concerned re the cooling, however have elected to keep to 96mm pistons and barrels to minimise the loss of cooling fin surface area making up the capacity with the stroke.

    Reading Zedders experience he has used 104mm barrels and a standard crank and so far seems to be keeping it running cool due to a low C.R of 7.5, not sure if he has managed any hot weather runs in it yet.....

    The supercharged route you are taking sounds very interesting indeed and potentially cheaper overall, are you fitting a charge cooler somewhere?
     
  13. As far as theory goes with a normally aspirated 2ltr lump Jake Raby has been selling his Camper Special motor for a number of years at a cost of $15000 and that only in inverted commas, achieves 125-135lb/ft of torque and 90-103hp.

    He seems well respected and certainly has had opportunity to spend vast sums on research and development over the years. On that basis I'm sceptical of any attempt to better it first shot in my garage. I find the prospect of increased CC's or your example of forced induction far more likely to achieve decent figures. Reliability over great distances however well that will of course be a lingering question mark.

    I have considered that though...... let's say in total it costs me £2500..... (I hope for less) and it only lasts 30k miles... that's 10 years motoring for me.

    So £250 a year......doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of vintage camper ownership even £500 a year wouldn't be a killer considering how much money these old girls are capable of eating.
     
  14. Yes charge cooler fitted .....my initial build cost plan was sub a grand and more BHP/torque out of my 1700 than My mate with his monster big 3k+ type 1 build .... including core engine ,supercharger ,Ecu I'm in to it about way under 2k all in ... do I need H beam rods ? I don't know , the vw ones are pretty strong .... I've spent years playing with my dells , jets custom vents etc now its plug in laptop ...big cc you also have to think about exhaust and J tube size as heat exchangers are quite restrictive
     
    CandyCamper likes this.
  15. Will the exhausts etc not be the same issue for the SC route, after all you will be shifting the same volume of hot gases as a larger motor?
     
  16. I've gone for the super flow 150bhp vintage speed exhaust and larger bore less restrictive J tubes ...

    There have been a few 6k engine builds on here , that was never an option for me so cost was key but apart from crank grind I did all the machining ,valve guides ,3 angle seats etc myself
     
    Lasty and CandyCamper like this.
  17. @CandyCamper Did you get this engine built in the end? I stumbled across this thread while looking for something else and notice I was talking about my 2316cc more than two years ago and it’s still not finished.
     
    rob.e and Bulletooth like this.
  18. Hi Westy,
    Yep all built and working IMG_0359.JPG
     
  19. Nah - he got wifeys` permission and bought a `plug and play` scoobie - made a drama out of that as well :rolleyes:

    Good luck with the build , there`s plenty of info out there , it`s just sorting the wheat from the chaff !!

    :hattip:
     
  20. Thanks, I think. I ask CandyCamper and get a reply from Busman with a pic of a very clean engine – looks good. What CSP bits are in it? Not the exhaust that’s for sure.
     

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