How is a garage going to assess what you buy? You're best off just sticking it in and driving it. That way you'll know how it goes, not how some garage thinks it will go.
This ^^^ you could find its sweet other than a few leaks. Change flywheel seal and bung it in. You can do pushrod seals and most others on a type 4 while fitted
Yep, definitely run it in first and hopefully all will be good and I can avoid the need for the cost of any garage assessment / machining etc at a later stage.
It runs about 12-13:1 under heavy load. 14-15:1 cruising on a level road at 65 , 16-17:1 going downhill at 65 (usually the way I can tell it is downhill is the mixture leans out) , 20+ with throttle shut at 40mph engine braking on a 1 in 10 hill. And 11:1 when the power valve finally decides to cut in around 4300 rpm. Temperature 80-100 normal. 110-112 going to/from Techenders. 115 running at 68mph.
The best rolling road is the real road. And as @zedders says, the only way to be totally sure what you get with an engine is to do it yourself. A average garage can look at an engine and observe how clean it is and that it runs without rattling or bad emissions when not loaded. It doesnt have an OBD port so they have no idea what is happening. You really will not know if there is anything wrong with a VW aircooled engine until you have driven it hard for 10 miles and everything has finally warmed up. An engine running flat out without a cooling fan belt will die in a minute, but idle for several minutes without issue. Fan belt fitted it will take miles to reach equilibrium. There seem to be a lot of stock engines badly set up that drive people to expensive solutions, covered in bodges and worn out parts. The fix may well be cleaning/upgrading the carburettor, and changing the exhaust for something a bit more free flowing. My previous engine had bad oil pressure, nearly loose flywheel, worn bearings, cracks for oil to seep out of but it would still drive the bus at 65mph, with a progressive carburettor and a JK single quiet pack exhaust.
My recent RR trip was interesting, but I've redone the whole map again now based on road miles. Cylinder head temperature varies an lot with mixture and spark advance, I came off the RR running hotter than when I went in! Even the auto tune software that is supposed to do the job for you on the road is pretty approximate, to get the tune right you need plenty of miles and data logs to make the changes needed manually.
I've got a recent t4 rebuilt engine. Runs hot at 60mph I'm also on my 3rd rebuild I think. I've lost count. It still leaks Save yourself the hassle now and go scooby. Will make life easier when you need to replace the engine again. If you can do it yourself then £2,500 should be fine. Alternatively upgrade your current engine. I can see you buying a 6 rib and a t4 engine then back on here complaining you've spent all your money and both need rebuilding, wife not happy and you got a holiday booked.
That isn't right. You haven't even had it long. What does the engine builder say about the temperature?
A new built engine will run hotter until everything beds in I would have thought. Certainly that what happened with mine. New B&P need time to settle in surely. @Razzyh has been seriously unlucky with his. We spoke at the April Techenders and I heard a part of the story, I gather that story isn't over which is a real shame. Same builder did mine and its lovely. It ran hot whilst running in but one year and 3000 miles later it is sweet as a nut and leak free.
When my t1 engine was rebuilt it didn't run hot at first and then cool down once all bedded in. It was fine temperature wise from the off. Hope it gets sorted out by the builder anyway
Out of interest, how hot did yours run after the rebuild, and how many miles until it started running cooler?
I'm not worried about my engine and I don't want to distract from the thread. I think the op should either upgrade his engine or go scooby a t4 and a 6 rib is not the way to go in my opinion. What amazed me about breeze is a number of people who had lovely engines but drove a skip. Spend your money on something much more worth while.
I found I had to cruise at slower speeds for the first few hundred miles (maybe 60 tops) or it would run hot. Now I can maintain 70 over distance with oil temp fine. I don't like getting oil temp over 110 oC really. My bus will do 80 easily but not for to long as it gets too hot. That all said these days I tend to drive off CHT which is generally only a worry if I am powering up long motorway drags. I can hold 60 to 65 mph easily up motorway slopes but CHT rises after a mile or two.
Thanks all for the viewpoints. I must be mad even considering it, as its taken an age to get the bus to a place where I can think about the engine, but I've bought a copy of Bentley and will read it cover to cover and then make my mind up what route to go - question of time/work/family re doing it myself. I've also started to list out pro's and con's of T1 v T4 - discounted the Subaru Scooby, purely as I want to keep it VW stock - the Mrs by the way Razzyh, will chew my ear off whatever the outcome!! I've reviewed zedders and owensnell's engine threads - impressive stuff - need to temper my ambitions in comparison! Seems generally accepted that the T4 is a stronger more robust engine than the T1 on a number of levels - with the T1 engine becoming less reliable in comparison when undertaking major performance mods. As I'm sticking to stock, then hopefully the reliability issues, including overheating, wont have such an impact with either a T1 or T4 choice. For stock T4 maybe a decent exhaust pack and general service and clean up, will be all that's needed, perhaps consider a CHT gauge for the cylinder head temperature (more reliable than oil temperature?) and drive sensibly! My stock T1 doesn't leak, has no float and is reliable, just doesn't like hills of any type above 30-40mph. A 1776cc upgrade would work too. Clear that if engine builder is good, then the 1776cc will meet my requirements and equally if I can source a decent T4 and following a clean up, this would also work. Cost wise not much in it if all goes well first time!
Oil temperature gets there in the end but has a huge lag, especially with a cooler fitted. My CHT is external, so has a lag (quite short) and is also dependent on engine speed because the air flow affects the reading. I've not got a gauge, just the laptop when connected. Zed has a proper CHT sensor with gauge in the dash.
Agree - read the Ratwell piece along with others stating the same - some good stuff and although not without caveats, seems a CHT gauge would be good.... "Oil temperature is not a good indicator of the engine temperature. A better indicator is the cylinder head temperature......Monitoring the temperature of the head is essential to long head life. When the heads overheat you loose compression in the mild case and suffer catastrophic engine damage in the extreme case which will cost thousands......I highly recommend buying a temperature gauge, wiring it up to spark plug #3 (traditionally the hottest cylinder) and keep your head temps (at that location) below 400F as you drive....My favourite CHT gauge is made by Dakota Digital. It's the only one in this price range that provides accurate digital readouts....."
Dakota CHT gauges work really nicely. They do a VW bus specific sense too with the right length of wire to go the full length of the bus and the correct sized speak plug fitting. I am not sure they have a UK distributor. I couldn't find one so ordered from the USA. Easy to do but duty is a pain
I put a 1776 in my 79 bay after the 1600 blew up. Only real problem i had was finding somewhere to locate the oil filter which would allow oil pipes to miss the exhaust pipes which you'll need to upgrade if your using stock still. Im using the same gearbox i put in over 10 years ago to so thats no issue. If your going to upgrade, i would do it properly and not bother with a 1641cc. Go straight for a 1776. You wont be disappointed
