Warning. Jon Hancock aka 65 Deluxe

Discussion in 'VW Services' started by Dub and Dubber, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. perhaps it would have been more helpful if you told us at the start your van was scrapped. we have given you good and free advice, you should take it.
    Lord Congi likes this.
  2. Dub and Dubber and paradox like this.
  3. Good points, well made ... I think Chinese torture is the way forward.
    I think the next company name will be "Autobahn Exiles" by the way.
    Peeling back the top layer for others in the "scene" will go a long way :)
  4. The more I read the steeper the hill becomes .... good luck.
    Dub and Dubber likes this.
  5. @mgbman I dont know what others will think but I'm not sure how to take this post .... particularly in light of our PM exchange.
    It sounds to me almost as if you think I've led you up the garden path and wasted your time ....?
    As for taking advice, you'll see that the suggestions vary widely (I wouldn't expect anything different because we all have different experiences etc) so who's advice would you like me to take?
    This thread is here to flag him up, (by linking to the closed Volkzone thread), not solve my problems with him ... however much most people's replies are aimed at helping me and supporting me with that ... for which I thank everyone :hattip:
    This also applies as far as being "more helpful" is concerned.
    I have the detailed photographic evidence, so no shortcomings from a legal point of view.
    There are a couple of possible reasons why scrapping didn't get a mention here.
    1) It HAS elsewhere (in PMs and in the report recommendations on VZI for example) and I've lost track of who knows what.
    2) Its not needed to make the warning, and a degree of economy is needed if I'm to avoid boring people.
    I suspect I may have done that now anyway.
  6. Well thanks for continuing to read.
    The only "gradient" I see is in the time required to do this well ... and by "this" I mean the flagging up.
    You've picked up on the legal issues and none of us is pretending that going to court is the easy, or even worthwhile, option ... It will be what it will be and rest assured that if I do any "damage" it will be to a reputation, not to my health!
  7. Here is my 2ps Worth

    You need to decide what outcome you actually want.

    Once you have decided on that, you can decide on the logical steps you need to take to achieve that outcome.

    If its getting as much money back as possible, then there are steps you can take: trading standards, serve notice before action, then take him to small claims court yourself. No solicitors.

    If its making sure others don't get ripped off / ruining his reputation or business then you need to take an entirely different set of actions. Eg marketing & getting a 'don't use him’ message higher up the search rankings than he is

    Decide what outcome you want
    mgbman, Gingerbus and Dub and Dubber like this.
  8. Thank you, yes.
    It WAS "either or" at one stage but it was looking a bit like just a threat of naming in order to get hush money...
    I'm more assured of reasonable results with the naming than the money side now of course, so that's what I'm putting time into.
    Chasing the money side will depend on what Citizen's and consumer's advice have to say.
  9. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    I'm no legal-eagle, but I think you'll struggle without the bus being available for further inspection. It'd be very easy for him to cast doubt on any photos or reports you've got I'd imagine.
    Bizarre that there has been no comment anywhere from people backing him up. There's no way on earth hes not aware of the various threads!
  10. I think the only way anyone can back him up is by genuine reports on being satisfied customers ... of which I'm sure he has at least a few through having basic work done or through being no better judges than I was ... but rather like those people who WOULD support MY version of events (because they have their own first hand experience) but who feel they can't for perfectly legitimate professional or "political", reasons it's probably a case of "didn't see it, can't comment, not really my place".
    Also I imagine, given those sorts of factors, it's even more difficult to back up a pariah than it is to back up someone in my position?
    I pointed out to him at one stage that the advice he gets will only be as good as the honesty and completeness of "Jon's version" that he gives the people advising him.
    If the Wilts Club episode is anything to go by its more a case of shutting me out and keeping heads down.
    I haven't said anything inflammatory, untrue or distorted so there's nothing for them to comment on there.
    The report and video make the quality of the work pretty clear, and the emailed "invoices" tell an interesting story, so there isn't really anything TO say without getting personal and irrelevant.
    So I wouldn't say "bizarre" so much as "telling" .....?
  11. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    Strange that people who have had similar experiences haven’t commented either.
    He’s been going for donkey’s hasn’t he? Somebody must have used him, with good or bad experiences!
  12. I just don't think most people want to wake sleeping dogs ...
    He'd like us all to think he's being going for donkey's (t shirt merchandising work with the likes of shockwave apparently counts as "being on the scene" for decades), but I think the actual "restoration" only made the transition from a hobby about six years ago.
    I'm not sure it's going to be necessary for everyone to come out of the woodwork in order to get the warnings out there with a life of their own ........
  13. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    You’re right that it won’t take “everyone” to come out as it were, for the story to get out there. At the moment though, it’s only you! (I’m not questioning what you’ve said by the way; just playing devils advocate).
    I just find it very strange that no-one other than you has mentioned their experiences at all. Even if he’s only been going 6 years that’s a fair number of customers surely?
    I don’t buy the “sleeping dogs” bit by the way. If someone gets ripped off it’s human nature to want to warn others, if and when the opportunity arises. The only thing that would change this would be cold, hard, cash.
    orangefeeling and mgbman like this.
  14. Depends upon the amount you have spent I suppose. Having had poor experience from 3 VW specialists I voted with my feet, fortunately it was relatively small amounts of money I had spent with them. There's another new VW owner for them to rip off along every minute, like I once was, to try and put the word out not to use them is very difficult and cant be bothered spending my time on such especially as to do so requires one to document and photo everything as you just cant go around saying "xyzzy did a Marmite job dont use him". Just my experience and I realise the OP has spent £15k. I spent £5k with one once on a paint job and some welding and I popped in every week still didn't stop them doing a poor job, but again not as bad as the OP and I did make him put some of it right.
    mgbman likes this.
  15. I think its time to call it a day on this matter.

    Clearly its another van owner let down by a restorer, its not the first time and it won't be the last.

    Hopefully the OP will see sense and accept he has no realistic chance of recovering his losses, especially as he took the decision to scrap the vehicle, so now has no hard evidence to support any claim.

    Early on, the OP had plenty of opportunity to make sure the work was being done and hold back payments or take the van back. But didn't.

    Naming and shaming is maybe what the OP wants now, but it is a dangerous territory and there is a fine line between complaining about somebody and libel.
    crossy2112 likes this.
  16. The 'restorer' may not have actually finished any jobs yet. No finished photos on his website.

    Customers he has upset may have been paid off & or gagged
    crossy2112 likes this.
  17. The restorer is the one in the wrong here, not the OP, despite the mistakes he has made.

    If it was me I'd find a way to get my money back, it won't be easy but is doable.

    Good luck to the OP, don't let wrong uns get away with it, or they will keep ripping people off!
  18. Who made you the TLB Police?
    Baysearcher likes this.
  19. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    I don’t believe that for 1 minute. He’s been going a while.
  20. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    I don’t think anyone is arguing that the restorer is not in the wrong?

    You’d struggle I reckon. The hard “evidence” no longer exists. I don’t doubt you can cost him money in lost business. That money ending up in the OP’s pocket is a very different matter.
    Lord Congi and scrooge95 like this.

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