Engine Bay Fire Suppression System

Yes I've got one of them about 2 years ago and its safely still in its box in my spanner box.

 

Very sensible - nobody wants to risk a tool box inferno -I think I might get one too.

 

Do any of those extinguisher systems come with a warning indicator?

My thoughts are, if you have some sort of indication on the dash board that the extinguisher has discharged, you are likely to stop quicker rather than waiting to notice smoke from the back of your van or the van running rough because electrics or fuel line has completly burnt through.

Regarding the cut off solenoids, I think this is a great idea. I had some scepticism regarding how effective a suppression system would be on its own, it might put out the initial fire but once it is discharged if there is fuel still comming out then it could re ignite?

so my plan it to go belt and braces!!, I've fitted marine grade fuel line on the breathers (and will for the feed once engine is in) I want to fit an extingisher system (foam) with an indication I can have on the dash. I will use the indication on the dash to cut the fuel solenoid off if the system discharges and hopefully contain the rest of the fuel in the tank and minimise the risk of feeding the fire further .....or that is the plan!

hopefully that lot should minimise the risk of loosing my bus completly and give my family a better chance of escape if the worst should happen

 

Surely if you just take the Missus along with one of her mates, they will use up any available oxygen with all their jawing Simple fire extinguished

 

I've looked into this over the last few weeks. I have to say I was a bit put off by the cost of the £200 systems and plumped for a cheap automatic powder extinguisher that I plan to usefor my engine - 50 quid from JK. I havent fitted it yet (just bought) but the JK Q&A says fit it as a slight angle.
I see this just as belt and braces though and woudl agree that the most important think is to make sure fuel lines are in good nick. I can see that 2kg powder will make a hell of a mess in my engine compartment - but decided that this is a whole lot better than seeing my P&J going up in flames !

http://www.justkampers.com/gtp-automatic-abc-powder-fire-extinguisher-2-0kg.html

 

If the fuel hoses are fine, there's no reason why your van should burst into flames.

 

Hiya

That's our system, Only just got on to the late bay forum, still getting the hang of all this.We got into selling these because our van caught fire and the product we had did not work, we tried to find a suitable alternative and eventually ended up as the distributor for the' fireboy' automated fire extinguisher.

Ok firstly the system is NOT Co2 - It is a heptafluoropropane system and does not work by removing the oxygen to extinguish the fire. The heptafluoropropane is a gas reagent that reacts with the fire binding up the free radicals so removing the energy / heat from the fire and thus extinguishing it. The air input does not effect the effectiveness of the extinguisher. This is suitable for both petrol and electrical fires. The gas in addition has a cooling effect on the engine bay so preventing re-igntion from occurring. This gas is tried and tested and we rely on the CE approval as the stamp of security.

The system is a CE approved fire extinguisher for use in marine industry, oil rigs, disabled cars, buses, racing cars and a loads of other places, as the gas is safe for use in occupied spaces. It is used in bank vaults, computer server rooms with cooling fans and many other high value areas so this is the preferred choice due to being zero mess, highly effective and safe to inhale.

The size of the extinguisher is designed to extinguish a fire in an area of 0.7 cubic metres. A typical VW engine bay is only 0.3 cubic metres, this compensates for any dispersion.

The system is temperature activated and the gas is automatically released through a 360 degree nozzle covering the whole engine bay. So in effect it does not matter where the fire starts it is the heat rising that actuates the system.

The extinguisher has an inbuilt pressure sender that is attached to a dash-mounted LED. If running an electrical fuel pump then the pressure sender can be wired so that the electronic fuel pump is automatically cut out, thus preventing fuel being pumped into the engine bay.

A choking agent is also present in the extinguisher so if a mechanical fuel pump, the van will be brought to a stop.

The system is fully tested and certified and has some great advantages over the use of foam or powder, whilst being completely clean and non corrosive.

If anyone does have questions send me a message and i will be more than happy to help, We have put a thread in the classified ads with more information, or come and see us at a show to have a look at the system for yourself.

Kind Regards
Colleen
VW Aircooled Works.

 

What is the critical temp for activation?

 

By pure coincidence, 0.7cubic metres is exactly how much cooling air a 1600 with a doghouse fan guzzles in one second at 4000 rpm.
Will your system have put the fire out in that one second? I can't see it. None of your examples is for an air-cooled engine bay. This won't be a fizzling circuit board or a hot transformer. It might be a great bit of kit based on up to date technology, but it'll be sucked out and blown away in a second and if you have the heater on, into the cab as well.

 

you can't beat the numbers

 

Maybe, because of all the air blowing through it wouldn't actually go off until you'd stopped (because your engine's on fire) and then it would work?

 

Ah-ha! - what type of system was this Colleen? You intimate it was an automatic "product"? Could you tell us if it was foam or powder? With a snaking hose around the engine compartment?
Did it go off?
Did it go off but do bugger all?
We need to know.

 

Yup let us know please
You dont have to mention any brand names

 

Our van was featured on the March/April 2011 issue 52 of camper and commercial and it explains in there that we had a fire due to a relay in the engine bay on the way to camper jam. We had 3 hand held fire systems on board and the first 2 although the gauges said they were ok did not release powder. I remember vividly in my panic trying to shake the powder out. The 3rd one did go off and put the fire out.

We then installed a loop system as a result of that frightening experience. We had our two girls in the back and it was our worst nightmare. After having this system in for 12 weeks I used the split to collect some ebay items. I got talking about the fire and the system I put in and the guy I was talking to was a fireman. When he looked at the system the gauge was in the red. So clearly this had leaked.

Problem then happened in trying to return it. In the end it cost me £13 to return and after several weeks it came back. It was suggested I had split the pipe, however the same pipe came back with no explanation of what happened just refilled. I sent an email and got no reply to my request for postage or explanation.

Basically anyone who knows Colleen and I (she runs Cafe de circe at many shows and has done for 5 years teaching children and adults circus skills) will understand that this has been a passion of mine to get a system that works and is supported by a warranty that does not cost you money. If our system was to leak you get an exchange item delivered to your door by courier. ALL at our cost. Fireboy has been going since the 1970s and it is a major brand in the marine market. We are talking about multi million pound vessels and yachts plus trucks. Our reputation on the VW scene is very important to us so a lot of research went into this. Check out the feedback on the prototype bay and you will see this.

Regarding this issue of airflow the picture that is being painted is that the engine bay is like a wind tunnel. The fan is where the air volume is being moved and this is in an enclosed system as such. The extinguisher is primed at 240psi whereas this is typically 120psi. Hence this little beast goes off at high speed and creates a massive displacement pressure. I have spent months researching this and spoken at length to fireboy. I am confident in this system and have left the theorizing to those who are qualified to comment and do this for a living. Forced air from cooling fans is common place in engine bays on vessels as well as in major computer server room set ups. The speed of this system in terms of reaction time and mode of operation means that the airflow will be nullified by the displacement pressure of the activation. This system as with all other automated systems activates a 175 Fahrenheit which approximates to 79 centigrade. I ran my van for 12 weeks in mid summer at max I got with the temperature probes in the engine at the point where we install was 38 Centigrade. This again was researched to ensure that false activation would not be an issue. The extinguishing unit has a special patented diffuser head that gives a 'halo' of gas over the whole engine compartment so this is a displacement process not just a squirt of gas. The heptafluoropropane is a widely recognized fire suppressant and more complex than the foam or powder systems in the way in operates. The gas is extreme cold and if you were holding it when it went off frostbite is likely.

I hope that this has addressed the points made. If people have any other specific questions then please email me at peter@vwaircooledworks.co.uk

I run a restoration business and we install this system in all the vehicles that we sell and believe that it provides a high level of security at a fair price with excellent sales and after sales support
regards
Peter

 

Thanks for the detailed reply Peter. I don't doubt your sincerety and I'm not trying to trip you up for the sake of it, but you need to discuss this in public rather than asking for people to email you with specific questions. If you can convince us, you'll sell a lot of these via this forum I should think.

Personally, I'm still not convinced it would have a chance to effect a fire at speed before being dispersed. Crawling along in the traffic, yes, but flying along the dual carriageway?

Also:

yorkieman I'm no expert, and not even sure if this refers to the same sytem, but if so will this not be pumped into the cab by the heating system?

 

A quick google says this stuff does produce Hydrogen Flouride. Wiki says:

"Hydrogen fluoride is a highly dangerous gas, forming corrosive and penetrating hydrofluoric acid upon contact with tissue. The gas can also cause blindness by rapid destruction of the corneas."

I wouldn't want that coming out of my dash vents thanks, for that reason, I'm out, I'd rather the van go up in flames.

 

OK, so you had hand held extinguishers that didn't go off because they were old and depressurised which is why you should check all extinguishers regularly. You then had a faulty installed system, which would have shown as such if you had put an indicator in the cab. The same loss of pressure could occur on any system. I would suggest that everyone reads Dog's post for good advice. Anything in the engine bay is good if it has a discharge warning light - then you know it has gone off and you (potentially) have a fire. Then a big foam hand held to put it out properly. No way I would rely on gas to do the job and prevent re-ignition.