Hi guys, I’m the owner of a 1972 T2 bay and am looking to have the stock 1600 dual port engine upgraded to a 1776 and the gearbox reconditioned at the same time (potentially with modified gear ratios to better suit the new engine). The camper will be used as camper for the family so will be loaded down with all the usual gear. So I could buy an engine off the shelf from one of the various companies on the internet (exchanging my engine) or I could get my existing engine rebuilt. What’s important is that I get a good reliable engine that makes the vehicle more fun to drive, able to accelerate to speed when entering the motorway and keep up with traffic. If I opt for a engine rebuild I will be paying for someone to do this as I don’t have the skills to rebuild the engine myself. I have a budget of around £5500, which includes the gearbox recondition and ratio change, but obviously only have the funds to do this once. So what would people suggest is the best way to spend my budget to get the best engine and gearbox combination. If people suggest a rebuild I would really appreciate as much detail on the components as possible and where to spend the money: New crank, pistons, what balancing should be done, recommended cam, dual carbs, oil filter mod, extra oil cooler. If I can reuse parts of my existing engine what is good to reuse, what not to use. My existing engine has an AD case number, 71000 miles and I don’t believe has been reconditioned before so probably hasn’t been machined. Thanks in advance for your help.
@paulcalf has had 2 1776 with different spec and has a lot of good info about the choices gave me loads of info.
I wouldn't change the gearing for 1776, it might go slower! I suspect you may be expecting too much from those extra 200cc or so. Spend your money making it bigger still, Paul will be along to say the same I'm sure. Buses need torque and that comes from capacity. Then maybe adjust or change the gearbox.
Thanks for the replies, when I’ve talked to various companies I’m always a little wary that their pushing what they sell and that isn’t necessarily what suits my needs. I saw a post by Paulcalf where he outlined two engines, the one off the shelf engine performed poorly, similarly other posts I’ve read outlined some engine spec but not enough detail or consistently between different posts for me to ask someone to built that spec. The original gearbox has done 150000 miles and when it gets hot it’s difficult to get into 1st/2nd so needs fixing, if I’m going to get this fixed then it made sense to me to get the gear ratio changed if that was a good option so would save me money having it removed when the engine was done. From what I’ve read I understand that your can get all the gear ratio’s changed (free way flyer I think) or just get the fourth gear changed. I was recommend by a company to go for the freeway flyer. If changing the gear ratio’s would actually be a backwards step then that’s really good to know. Then as your suggest zedders, I would wait a little and see how the new engine performs. As I’m reliant on asking someone else to build the engine for me I little wary of them spending my money and creating an engine that doesn’t suit my needs. I’m very keen where possible to tell them what to build so that I know the engine I get (if built properly) will perform.
Our camper is currently running a 1776cc ‘Type 1’ engine as built by ‘Laurie Pettit’ in February 2006. It had 043 (genuine heads), a new case (which I believe was machined at Bluebird Customs) , a C35 cam kit. A new (or first grind) crank. A 215mm flywheel and an 1800cc van clutch kit. The case is full flowed with a remote oil filter with aeroquip hoses and fan assisted oil cooler. It also has Dual Kadron carburetors and a stainless steel twin quiet pack exhaust system. The distributor is is a 009 and it has an alternator. The engine was built for torque not high revs as we tow with it. in 2006 the engine cost us £1800 and the remote oil filter, oil cooler hoses and exhaust were extra....... I cant say what it would cost to build one now but the engine is still going strong and pulls the camper and teardrop a darn sight better than the 1641 did. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The gear ratio thing for a small engine You make the engine more powerful - good. Then you gear it so it's less powerful - why? VW when they started making 1700s left the gearing as it was for 1600s and that made a great combo. If you went as far as 2,000cc or larger then yes, now you have the torque for lower gearing.
Unless you want to keep it original would a Subaru conversion be worth considering? Will certainly be more fun to drive and will keep up with motorway traffic.
Stick a 2.0 type 4 engine in her. Getting the gearbox rebuilt or replaced is a great idea after the years. The type 4 engine is superior in every way. It was a later engine VW designed specifically for heavier vehicles like buses. The engine will happily sit at 70mph all day long without overheating.
Its a 1970s builders van. Its not supposed to go like the clappers. I like Type 1 engines as the parts are plentiful and cheap vs the Type 4. Lots of people have 1776s and are more than happy with the performance. Equally, there are lots of people, myself included, that are fine with an upgraded (twin Dells and 1641 B&Ps) 1600. I suppose its up to you to decide if you want to go "fast" and how much you are prepared to spend to achieve it.
"fast" is not really the object. It's more being able to keep up with normal traffic without thrashing the arze of it and not slowing down and shifting through the gears because of a hill you would barely be aware of in a more modern vehicle. Acceleration and top speed are secondary considerations for me, though it's nice to be able to cruise at 65mph without frying the engine.
Your camper is only used for camping trips with the family, so I wonder how many times you would actually use it during the year. Seems to me you are happy with your camper but would like to go faster to keep up with modern traffic. Would this hoped for increase in speed and acceleration justify your £5500 budget bearing in mind you won't get that spend back if you sell your van. Have you ever driven a Bay with a bigger engine to see for yourself just how much faster they are. No point spending a lot of money and then being disappointed. If you do decide a bigger engine is for you, then you could minimize your risk and buy a refurbed engine with guarantee from TES as seems to be recommended by folks on here.
Welcome to the forum @KezBoy. With a budget of £5,500 definitely consider a Subaru conversion. But if you want to keep the Type 1 engine don’t fit a higher gearing, a 1776 is a modest increase in torque. Listen to what zedders said ‘The gear ratio thing for a small engine You make the engine more powerful - good. Then you gear it so it's less powerful - why?’ Somebody said they have a 1776 with a C35 cam and 009 distributor – that’s not an engine built for low rev torque, okay for a bug though.
Or for serious torks and reliability, you could keep everything stock 1600 and just machine the case for a long throw crank. You'll never make it undersquare, but you can get a whole lot closer than a 1776.
. I think you may be confusing "The Engine Shop" (cheap and cheerful) with "The VW Engine Company", often recommended on here.
I would spend a little time inspecting your gearbox - it might really only need the 'donut' inside the nose cone replacing , the difficulty with first/second may in effect be external mechanical problems. Dont bother with a freeway flier or messing with ratios without a lot more power. Then the properly built engine will eat all of your budget without space for the gearbox. You might be able to squeeze more out of a 1600 by improving the exhaust and the carburettor arrangements - I think my 1641 (a tiny bit bigger) is quite effective at pushing my bus around faster than a lot of people imagine.. Because I use 186/65R15 tyres, the gearing on my bus is slightly lower than stock. I call on it regularly to go to Bristol from Southampton at reasonable speeds up the A34 and the M4, at 65+ mph, slowing on the hills to about 50mph. Its fast enough. I sometimes wonder if the 1776 would have been better but at the time, I was so shocked by the engine blowing up, and then my wife agreeing to an all new engine, and having ordered a new engine while still waiting for the AA in a Tesco carpark (following a quick inspection of the hole in the engine) ... I didnt dare tempt fate. I would recommend the "Mexico" style almost-all-new engines or the JK Preservation Parts engines (The Engine Company builds these - but use OG cranks while Mexico style use new cranks) - which keep the stock crank and con-rods (good old forged German steel) and build an all-new engine around it with slightly better than stock EMPI heads. This stays well within your budget, then you can get a pair of Webers for it and a better exhaust. I wouldnt touch Type 4 based engine projects now, spare parts are an issue. Its why people go Subaru. And spare parts for the normally aspirated Subarus are also becoming an issue, the base engines are getting older, while T1 engine spares are still 100% available made new.
Tosh! AA are even making a range of heads for them. No shortage of cams, B&Ps, Rods etc etc. The only part not made is the case and the reason is lack of need because they weren't made of cheese like T1 cases. Do keep up.
Everything to build a Type 4 engine is available, including many parts to better than VW standards and you can still buy new cases, but they’re not cheap.
Thanks for the reply’s, really appreciate the comments. So I’ll definitely stick with the gear ratios as they are and just look to get the gearbox fixed/reconditioned. I’d like to stick with the T1 engine as the vehicle been in the family for 40 years so want to keep it original. Just really looking to keep up with modern traffic particularly being able to accelerate when loaded down with camping gear and passengers. I think a 1776 (or similar long throw crank) from what I’ve read should meet my expectations, not looking to go really fast but cruising at 65 mph with out stressing the engine would be fine, tackling hills on the motorway with out changing down as well. I remember the first engine dying when it dropped a valve 30 years back and the current engine was fitted in hast so that we could continue on our holiday, I was probably around 10 year old at the time. It will be a long term investment as I would never sell the vehicle and will now be using the vehicle with my family. Would people recommend an off the shelf engine from the VW engine company or can I get better with a custom build using what I have to create a 1776? Not looking to spend all my budget, just want value for money and a good performing engine. I find it difficult to determine if an off the shelf engine is a good buy or has been as built on a budget. Seems so many variables that I wouldn’t be able to tell if corners had been cut.
