Scottish independence.

They had the opportunity to switch UK rolling stock and line to Berne gauge (ie same as the rest of Europe) when they built the Channel Tunnel....but we knew better
Imagine the investment, and the revitalisation of UK industry this would have had....instead they closed down lines , increased prices and allowed private companies to cram as many passengers on as few carriages as possible. Is it any wonder the roads are congested?

 

This devolution malarkey is all about a handful of politicians with super inflated egos trying to make a name for themselves in history. I would suggest that Mr & Mrs Average don't really give a toss as long as they can put food on their table and live in peace and safety.
The biggest growth area is politics. We now have, Parish Councils, Town councils, County Councils, District Councils, MPs, Euro MPs, EU Commissioners, Welsh parliament, Scottish parliament etc... and we pay for all this with our taxes.
Sorry for the rant but a few beers have helped.
Rule Britannia and good night all.

 

Ive given this some thought and on balance ive concluded that i dont really give a fig. I agree with Vanoraks comments on the devoluion of power and its a shame that central government doesnt properly do this. What they seem to do is not want to reduce "big government" but increase it by having what on the face of it looks federal but isnt its just duplication of big government at a local level and isnt that democratic.

In respect of Moons comments on the teaching of history and I think, if my interpretation is correct, the use of this to indoctrinate minorities into nationalism then I agree. My studies of history concentrated on Enclosure/Industrial Revolution/English Civil War and included the Tolpuddle Martyrs, The Peterloo Massacre the formation of the Labour Movement and Trades Unions, the emancipation of wormen and the Abolition of Slavery.

None of the above made me particularly proud to be English but did make me proud of my class and their struggle for basic human rights. This is my patriotism.Im still "proud" to be British, have taken the oath of allegience and sing the national anthem. That said if it was the theme to postman pat Id sing it. Despite the words its a tribute to those who helped form our way of life and those whove defended it.

 

I was making the same point too. Too much government at the wrong level!

 

Another rebellion required, this time don't turn back at swarkstone bridge .

 

Rebellion of what - landed gentry against landed gentry!

 

The Welsh and Scottish aren't minorities in their own countries.

And indoctrine is an over the top word...it was History not RE!

 

Thats the whole point isnt it. Conquered by the English and formed into the Union yet allowed their ethnicism to keep them parochial and promote nationalism that isnt a threat to the established order and by maintaining the focus on the differences between communities and by manipulating prejudice managing to avoid the focus on the similarities and synerigies that should exist between communities.

 

Personally don't give a hoot!!

If they wanna go it alone good luck and good bye!

just my opinion

 

The real process of Union did not start with the English conquering the Scots, it started when James VI of Scotland inherited the English Crown and became James I of England, bringing the English and the Scots under the same monarch.

 

Give Berwick on tweed back to the scots and it will all blow over.

 

It was ageneral point relating to the scits welsh and irish really.

 

I've underlined the words that offend.

Do me a favour and read up on how exactly the English chose to eradicate both the Welsh and Scottish ethnicity over the centuries - 'allowed' is hilariously offensive - you tried to crush it and it barely survived, what exists now has taken generations to resurrect. I can respect your political beliefs, and recognise the well trodden rhetoric that portrays a sense of self thousands of years old as naive whilst extolling a political system barely 100 years old that simply does not work (an argument for a different day).

I guess none of you are proud to be English then? When England win (ha!) at football you are merely puppets when you celebrate, pawns in a political game - that sense of together and pride is meaningless?

I also guess that you are all looking forward to speaking Mandrin maybe and adopting the Chinese social strata then - I mean, given that we are all supposed to be under the one roof as it were, it needs to be someone's, and they have the most powerful nation.

Sounds daft doesn't it.

See this is my issue - there is an inherent arrogance in many of the posts here that you people simply don't see - which is why you won't ever understand the need for a referendum and could never understand the issues in Northern Ireland and most of the other conflicts we get involved in (I'm not saying I have a great view either, however this one I have a different point of view). In essence - you conquered and from there on in these people need to know their place and we'll remind them who won....

@Barneyrubble asked earlier - why do they want a referendum. I've merely tried to explain why I think they do, in light of some of the posturing written here - if you don't agree then so be it.

 

Offend - the very idea!

It was a late night rambling and I didnt chose my words that well. History, as in facts figures and politics is important as it explains the present and informs on future decisions however in relation to the day to day lives of the masses it plays little part. Social and Econmic History and Sociology are more relevant to people. We are where we are and thats what we have to deal with.

 

Oh yes - btw @Moons - I didnt try to crush anything. A working class bloke in Merthyr is the same as a working class bloke in Mansfield to me! Unfortunately Im not a member of the ruling classes

 

I saw multi millionaire John Lennon's car on Sunday as it happens - non of this borgeous decadence of hand made Italian motor for citizen John, his beliefs resulted in him driving a car of the people, a Ford Cortina or Beetle or similar. Oh, hang on.....

I can understand that some people believe us to be all equal - and I personally don't agree. That's not my putting myself above others - that's my recognising that our social plane is not flat, it has a hierarchy just as other social 'families' do in nature - it's a natural thing.

It's also not to say that I like what we have, I don't - but I do recognise that pretty much all political ideologies have a degree of nepotism - I don't think we will ever be able to stop that, it's far too ingrained in our DNA.

@poptop2 are you saying I should move home? Not sure what you are getting at.....

 

I wasn't holding you personally responsible.

Not for this at least.

 

im with Dicky, all this ruling history is not my history. while the ruling classes were running amock round the world my ancestors were either down the pit, in a mill or up a chimney on starvation wages. when people blame the English for their problems don't blame me

 

@Dicky @WoodyLubber I'm not blaming anyone, I personally wasn't a victim either. If the question is why do the Celts hold their language and culture dear it's because of decisions made in an English parliament, hence why maybe not being ruled by one for the first time in X Centuries is attractive.

It's merely my trying to qualify the effect by naming the historical cause that is all.