New guy, needs advice

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourselves' started by Dick Dastardly, Aug 15, 2021.

  1. Hi guys, this is my bus "Rocket" it is a 1974, 1585cc with a single carb. Id like to get a bit more oomph out of it for going up those long hills with the angry HGV driver behind me. What would be a good upgrade option? just put twin carbs on or upgrade the engine? I've seen a 1679cc type 4 engine for sale will no doubt need a rebuild. Is this an option or just more trouble than its worth?
     
  2. Day

    Day

    Hi, welcome from Italy.
    I know what you mean about more oomph uphill, my 1976 1600 is happy at 55mph, going uphill.. I have learnt to just let others 'get on with it' overtake when they can/want.
     
  3. Swapping from type 1 to type 4 engine is a bigger task than it sounds as all the tinware etc. is different so only do that if you are in a "go big or go home" mood as it will cost and there are likely better ways to get what you are after staying with a type 1.

    I am not that knowledgeable on type 1 as mine is a 2056 type 4 but there are loads of ways to upgrade yours depending on budget and what you are after. I'm sure someone will be along shortly with ideas on options and typical costs but for me it goes something like 1) make sure your bus is running as good as it can, as there may be a bit more performance to be had by simply getting yours to run sweet as a nut. After that you are probably looking at swapping it out for a bigger capacity type 1 and probably dual carbs too. Some people go from single port to twin port 1600 but I am not sure that gets you that much improvement. All the best for your tweaks!
     
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  4. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    1700 type-4 are surprisingly good on the motorway hills and designed for a 3 rib box so that's one less job. I used to overtake my 2l type-4 camping buddies on the long hills as their 6 rib gearing made their engines less powerful at the wheels than my 1700 at those speeds. Drove them crazy. lol But in all other circumstances they left me for dust. Type-4 have better cooling than type-1 - fact. You can cruise a bit faster because of that.

    I wouldn't bother with twin carbs or a few more cc on a type-1, it won't give you what you're looking for. Going bigger than that makes more heat so you'll just be limited by that instead. The plus is better acceleration.

    However, changing from type-1 to type-4 IS and expense and in general a type-4 is much more expensive to rebuild... but then again they are less likely to need rebuilding... unless you buy a 1700 that's from a bus rather than a car.

    If money is no object a 2.3-2.4L type-4 with a 6-rib box is where it's at but unless you DIY it's likely to cost more than your bus did. Even if you DIY it's jolly expensive.
     
  5. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    I really don't like saying this, but if you're looking at spending a few quid, these days - Subaru for the win.
     
    cunny44, Razzyh, Dubs and 1 other person like this.
  6. The engine I have at the moment is twin port, the engine code is AS. I don't mind spending the money if it's worth while improvement.
     
  7. Razzyh

    Razzyh Supporter

    Smaller tyres can help get and keep the speed up, however you’ll lose top end speed.

    I wouldn’t worry about HGV’s they got to expect you to be slow.
     
  8. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Everybody's idea of that is different. I wanted to be able to accelerate up motorway hills, overtake things like a car without a run up, keep up with modern traffic with ease and no thrashing through the gears. I did not want to have to change down a gear unless I came to a very steep hill and it was kinder to the engine. And it had to never, ever slow me down because it got too hot.
    Those are extreme requirements for an air-cooled VW bus. and for that you need 2.2L minimum (about the max for a very carefully designed and built type-1 but those are still held back by inadequate head cooling) and preferably around 2.4L Type-4. On this forum there are 2 of us with 2.4L type-4 of quite different design. Mine is cheap and cheerful (stock 2L with big barrels and pistons + head work) and comes with head sealing problems. 77westy has similar cc stroker with nearer stock pistons which is the better, longer lasting but more expensive way of doing it. Start from scratch and pay someone else and you are looking at a very large bill. Exhaust and carbs could easily set you back £2k for example.
    Context - I was thinking of putting new big valve heads on mine, changing the cam and fitting slightly smaller B&Ps, DIY. For around the same price I could sit back while someone supplied and fitted a Subaru 2.5L and I'd still have my engine to sell. I'd still like to do it but it's a bit hard to justify! lol

    Other end of the worthwhile scale is the ever popular 1776 type-1 - bigger B&P is all or it will stand a teeny bit of cam if you need to replace it anyway. That's probably the best bang for buck air-cooled upgrade going. Heads and case need machining. Even better with a decent valve job some very basic headwork.
     
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  9. 1776, all the way, if it's a Type 1, would be my thoughts.
     
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  10. MorkC68

    MorkC68 Administrator

    Welcome aboard!!
     
  11. mikedjames

    mikedjames Supporter

    The other thing is to plan ahead and dont get in front of the HGV just before the hill ...
    My style is to travel at about 60-68 mph on the flat, overtaking the HGVs and then line up on hills just behind them.

    The upgrades I have done are.
    1. Full flow oil cooler , it was just getting too hot 120C when I finally fitted an oil temperature gauge.
    2. Progressive carburettor - my stock carburettor was worn and tempramental, so I wanted the cheapest made in Europe carburettor option, as Chinese 34PICT-3 are regarded as a lottery . Took a lot of tuning to get the best.
    3. Single quiet pack exhaust .
     
  12. Poptop2

    Poptop2 Administrator

    HGV drivers don't get mad they get even,

    wait until you follow me up an hill fully laden :oops:

    Welcome
     
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  13. Welcome to the madhouse, by the way, and don't expect a pocket rocket, not if you have a pop up roof and a full on camping interior, 55ish is really where they are happiest
     
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  14. docjohn

    docjohn Supporter

    I've got a 1776 0n twin Dellorto 34FRD carbs and, as @F_Pantos says, the sweet spot is 55-60 fully laden. Mine wasn't well set up when I got it but I've worked through the carbs and ignition and can now keep up with the HGVs on the hills. It would be nice to have more go, but I'm not sure I want to spend that much to go 10mph faster.
     
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  15. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    You do need to be a bit obsessed and preferably divorced to save explaining yourself to anyone.
     
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  16. docjohn

    docjohn Supporter

    Yeeess, been there :rolleyes: Learnt a lot about that going rallying and sprinting....
     
  17. Welcome from West Lancashire -ours is the same engine as yours - standard 1600tp Type 1 with standard carb.
    55 mph on the motorway (although it will creep up to 65 if I don't keep a careful watch) , slowing down on hills and so getting my own back on HGVs who have held me up in my everyday car , when they travel in convoys taking up lanes 1 and 2 as they take turns in overtaking each other with a 1 mph speed differential.
     
    Zed and mgbman like this.
  18. If its modern speed you want, perhaps you should have bought a T5 or T6.

    I had a Bay just like yours for 7 years and enjoyed all its quirks and really you should try to enjoy yours as it is and any spare cash spend it on expensive fuel for more trips and frequent maintenance.
     
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  19. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    :rolleyes:
     
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