Discussion in 'VW Services' started by Dub and Dubber, Jan 21, 2018.
Agree with some of that.
Some of it is just condescending to the OP.
Thank you all
Apologies to anyone coming in to read this as if it were a presentation to a court with "all the facts of the case" ... The Vzi thread is probably better for that.
THIS thread has taken an interesting turn from my perspective as "the OP".
I'm happy for the thread to run on because it generates references to 65 Deluxe and Autobahn Exiles that will come up in searches, (which is all to the good), I did however originally post in order to flag up my experience as a way of warning other people about what might happen to them if they present Jon with anything beyond what I would call "piece work".
I can't decide whether @mgbman is well meaning but too far distracted by his own experiences to read and respond appropriately, or actually attempting to pull off some kind of subtle undermining and oblique messages job on behalf of a certain person.
Either way I have to answer these comments.
I have kept to the facts and made it clear when I'm expressing an opinion or describing an impression.
Nothing remotely libellous or even near a "line" on that front.
I don't see how my not being the first or the last means LESS reason to continue this thread.
Surely all the MORE reason.
Anyone reading my posts (including on Vzi) without some "angle" will see that any "opportunity" to call a halt and rectify etc was hidden behind a combination of Jon's methods and my naive enthusiasm ... and the practicalities of running such a big secret at arms length for so long.
The evidence is there in documents and images.
Scrapping was neither avoidable nor irresponsible.
Jon's position is very similar, namely that by scrapping the vehicle I denied him the opportunity to put things right ... That didn't seem plausible to me given his claim to not know where the work fell short.
Jon also tried the thinly veiled pseudo-legal threat of what he referred to as "liable" ...
Jon has shown himself to be capable of a cavalier attitude to several customers' situations and money.
At the risk of repeating the obvious, this thread is not about the rights and wrongs of my past and future decisions, it's about making it clear to as many people as possible that you cannot be guaranteed a straightforward and satisfactory service if you leave your project with Jon Hancock.
It's really that simple.
Whether others choose to start a "#metoo" movement is neither here nor there. One voice is plenty given the evidence I have.
I'm leaving the advice side of things to the Consumer Advice Line and Trading Standards as they will know whether, or how, I should pursue the money.
If they say "not a snoflake's" then that's it.
If they say "it'll take ages but you'll get it eventually and the cost will be £xyz" I'll be taking that up.
Soap box session ended.
Good luck with it all mate
It’s horrible getting shafted☹️
Thanks ... Other things have kept in perspective so not "horrible" (yet?)
Or maybe I'm missing the victim gene?
Or could be the subject of a whole other thread, "in praise of NLP" ...!
If you have a proper report done by an expert witness, recognised by the court. Scrappimg it is no problem. I had one done for the stag and the terminoligy is done so the court/judge understands why the work is classed as sub-standard. Only problem was I went through it all and costs get larger, then the sod goes bust. Paying for reports and solicitors aint cheap.
Best just trying to make sure he does not trade again.
A "wisdom of the court" would have been preferable I guess but I'm happy with the report I've got, which is in combination with images etc.
I also think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to "translate" it into legal-speak for when a case gets presented ... if a case gets presented.
If someone goes bust they have to pop up again at some point, in which case at least the warnings can start going out again.
I think mgbman is Jon’s brother ....
I get what your doing .id be yellow snowed to
But some of this is your fault ...
My opinion and im sure you won’t agree .
I don’t believe anybody can be in business for 6 years and just put out poor work . I believe your arrangement contributed to the lack of and poor work .
I also think you should proceed with the legal route or drop it ...
It also surely causes legal problems for this forum if he decides to take you to court for slander let alone causes issues when you don’t like a comment !!
This forum isn’t really the tool and I think the point is made ....
I agree actually that I at least contributed to the situation in the ways I've already outlined, so no problem with that ...
and no, I haven't said he has only put out poor work. How would I know?
What I do know is how poor his work was for me, how he did his best to fudge my understanding of what he was doing, and he failed to honourably give up a valuable cash cow by failing to tell me it wasn't viable except for silly money, which he knew I didn't have.
I don't like a comment when its not clear what motivates it and I think that kind of comment deserves an answer.
The forum moderators will know that I haven't slandered anyone.
A warning is a warning nothing more.
If people choose to place the trickier jobs in Jon's hands after hearing about my specific experience there's nothing more I can do, and they may well be fine ... not least because he'll now (one would hope) be reviewing which work he takes on, and how he does it.
I just want people to think twice about it.
You're right, the forum isn't that tool, but there is at least the expectation that if someone has an issue with a trader, they are free to flag it up.
The legal route depends entirely on what Trading Standards have to say.
If they say yes there's some point in going to court then I will, and will be putting my time, energy, and a set amount of money into that, leaving the warnings to one side as they're out there now anyway.
He's got some good advertising going on and if you look at his FB page shows a connection with some nice looking motors in some magazine articles
I don’t think the above is strictly true. You tried to use this thread and the one on VZi as leverage.
You said you would expose the guy unless you reached a financial resolution.
Had he paid up would you still have named him and his business ?
You make out that you are doing us all a favour but if that were true then surely you have named him from the off ?
I know you probably mean well but it’s all got a bit ugly.
Have you talked to trading standards yet?
You're absolutely right about Vzi being about "leverage" but people's comments soon made it clear I should separate the warning out from the money and that while I was mulling, time was passing, and people were still unaware of the possible dangers ... That thread started going through treacle on my side though because my Mum got really ill, with the inevitable conclusion happening within about two weeks of me starting it.
With hindsight, had I not had all that going on I would have switched to naming much earlier.
As for TLB well I assure you the leverage element was long gone when I started this thread!
I hope you don't mean what I've said about Jon has got ugly? If you mean the differences of opinion that have surfaced I think that's all part and parcel, but we probably have just about reached that point of "critical mass" where to continue is not to progress if you see what I mean?
Particularly as, to answer @paradox, the phone calls are being made this coming week .......
@Dub and Dubber
Your angery! Very very understandable I would be too. Seriously.
Question; What would be a good outcome out of all of this? I would have though having some or all the majority of the money back.
I had a legal dispute over a client that didn’t want to pay me or anyone as a matter of fact. It very nearly bankrupted by business! (He new only too well how to play the system)
Yes I wanted to punch his lights out and that wouldn’t have been a problem.
Fortunately for me I did the right thing and went to see two customers one a barrister and the other a solicitor.
The barrister said look I know you and I know your workmanship and I know you as a person and don’t doubt what you have said but in my experience theirs always two sides to a story and somewhere in the middle is the truth.
In addition regardless of how your feeling there has to be a ending to this so you can get on with your life.
The solicitor was very professional
walked me through the whole process and costs,
So I agreed and the process began!
It’s like the whole world has been lifted off your shoulders.
The fortunate thing is no one want to go to court unless there’s no other option left on the table.
If you go to court then regardless of you being in the right there’s a small chance you could possibly loss!
On the eleventh hour a offer was made I excepted, it wasn’t what I wanted.
But I got something back and the more important was I got closure and a end that I was happy with.
I think you should consider this.
Yes, thanks to all of that.
It chimes with where I'm at .... but I'm not angry honestly ... I've made more noise about motorway middle lane hoggers and outside lane bumper huggers.
That might be part of the problem with getting round to the "right" or "best" course of action?
I probably worry about being "all mouth and no trousers" so it all gets a bit (too?) measured and long winded (sic)
@Dub and Dubber
Wouldn’t be surprised that your feeling alienated from the Vw seen to I suppose
There’s a lot of forged relationships and and saying anything bad about anyone doesn’t go down well.
Your most likely a very nice person that’s had a bad experience one not to forget.
Just find the time to see someone whom can advise the best way forward
and draw a line.
You will feel a thousand times better.
@Dub and Dubber
Suppose the other person too is a nice guy and too wants to get on with there life too. There must have been something good about them for you to choise them I’m not defending or condoning what’s happened.
Best way would be to arrange a meeting with a solicitor in a neutral place, without shouting at each other.
In the end there has to be a ending.
If you he all the receipts and the van you could have easily won in a claims court, you could have got a professional vehicle inspector to write a full summary, why on earth you scrapped it is beyond me, why make the situation worse?
I have full sympathy for you for the work carried out though.
Having now read the full thread I think this has already been said.
I'm not helping.
Sue his ass or at least set fire to something of his.
Separate names with a comma.