Warning. Jon Hancock aka 65 Deluxe

Discussion in 'VW Services' started by Dub and Dubber, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    He's sponsoring "UK Cruise to Ninove" on Facebook.
    It'd be a shame if his work got mentioned on there....
     
    StuF, Dub and Dubber, pkrboo and 3 others like this.
  2. I'm blocked ... Will have to be a group thing :thinking:
     
    72devon likes this.
  3. So what does one have to do to sponsor that? and who's on the organising committee? because it only takes one of them to be a "crony" and I'm scuppered!
     
  4. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    You’re blocked from the group?
     
    jivedubbin likes this.
  5. I think you have over complicated this. You have gave this fella £15k on the understanding he was making all due repairs to your bus for the money.

    It would be obvious to any restorer, amature or professional that the extent of the work carried out would not ammount to £15k.

    I would assume he was billing you for work carried out by issuing an itemised bill after each stage , which you checked and signed off before paying?

    If none of the work on any of the itemised bills has for which you have paid far has been carried out , then stp messing about with letters to and fro. This guy has simply defrauded you of £15000, Report the matter to the Police and encourage other folk that have been duped by him to do the same .. Build up a case to show that he is dishonest and fraudulent in his business dealings.. You might also consider contacting the Inland Revenue, letting them know you paid £15k to him which I am sure there will be no record of in his book keeping..

    Will you ever get your money back... No is the answer, so you only option is to pursue legally.

    Some will argue that it is a civil matter .. its not , since the moneyhas been taken for work not carried out .. Thats FRAUD .. If the work was carried out and completed butturned out to be of a poor standard and unsatisfactory thats a different matter and would be civil, as its a dispute over quality.

    Either way you wont be seeing your cash again.. but you might be able to put a stop to people like this taking advantage of hapless dreamers..

    The truth is VW vans are not worth the values placed on them. They have developed a following and folk feel the need to join in, but unless you have large chunks of disposable income or are in a position to do all of the work yourself, then they simply are not worth the cost of having them restored . They are not rare, they are ten a penny.. Saying you couldn't afford to buy into one at £15k since you didnt have the cash at the time is easy to overcome.. a bank loan and spread the cost .. cheaper n the long run if you buy the right bus... Restoring one of these piles of rust is not an economical option. A tart up might cost more than the tarted up van is eventually worth and would be a never ending saga of chasing repairs.. A full rsto could run into £50K , when the finished bus would be worth £25K ... They simply dont stack up as a sensible investment, unless your buying the £25k bus thats just had 40k spent on it .. !!!!!!!
     
  6. Blocked from his Facebook page, and "sent to Coventry" by the Wilts group ...
     
  7. Saw this review from Air Monkeys:

    "One of the biggest problems we face when owning old cars is who to trust with them. I rarely let other people sit in my cars let alone do a restoration or re-spray! If you are in need of someone to trust then we know just the guy. His name is Jon Hancock. With some air-cooled VW’s fetching silly prices these days you need to know your car is in a good pair of hands."

    What could possibly go wrong!:eek:
     
    Dub and Dubber, nicktuft and Lasty like this.
  8. One point at a time then:



    I made it complicated from the start because I was trying to get the work done gradually and secretly, over seven years, for a 60th birthday present.
    The first section of work was to be one side of the chassis for £2000.
    On that basis I was expecting around £5000 in total.
    Quotes changed to "pay as you go" and of course this is when the little birdies started to be ignored.
    Once the belly pans came off the front end was looking bad, so that would mean more, but the front end never got done, as I whipped the whole thing away once the penny had finally dropped ...

    "It would be obvious to any restorer, amature or professional that the extent of the work carried out would not ammount to £15k."

    Because this money was paid in relatively small amounts over a few years, and because the project was a secret one, being done "at arms length" I actually didn't realise the total until very late in the day, when I started looking for someone else to do the work in a shorter time frame, and to do the mechanical follow up.

    "I would assume he was billing you for work carried out by issuing an itemised bill after each stage , which you checked and signed off before paying?"

    Payment became "a*** backwards" with money paid for panels up front.
    As I couldn't visit, all the "work done" was shown with photographs, which of course were well designed shall we say.

    "If none of the work on any of the itemised bills has for which you have paid far has been carried out , then stp messing about with letters to and fro. This guy has simply defrauded you of £15000, Report the matter to the Police and encourage other folk that have been duped by him to do the same"

    Well I now know of four others who have been taken in, in one way or another. One doesn't want to dredge it all up again, one is too vulnerable to put through this, one I can't get hold of and I suspect has had their home life wrecked because they over extended themselves, and one has reputedly got so much money to play with they probably wouldn't give a damn even if they were aware of how they've been a cash cow for a while.

    "Build up a case to show that he is dishonest and fraudulent in his business dealings.. You might also consider contacting the Inland Revenue, letting them know you paid £15k to him which I am sure there will be no record of in his book keeping"


    That's what I'm starting on now ... and in addition, as someone has kindly pointed out, Wilts Council will be very interested in various areas of his set up such as change of use, health and safety, public liability, environmental impact, sanitation .....

    "Will you ever get your money back... No is the answer, so you only option is to pursue legally."

    It's the way I'm heading but, as I've said before, I don't yet have the funds, and the courts tend to work out best for the lawyers.

    "Some will argue that it is a civil matter .. its not , since the moneyhas been taken for work not carried out .. Thats FRAUD .. If the work was carried out and completed butturned out to be of a poor standard and unsatisfactory thats a different matter and would be civil, as its a dispute over quality.

    Either way you wont be seeing your cash again.. but you might be able to put a stop to people like this taking advantage of hapless dreamers"


    Is that not what I'm doing?

    "The truth is VW vans are not worth the values placed on them. They have developed a following and folk feel the need to join in, but unless you have large chunks of disposable income or are in a position to do all of the work yourself, then they simply are not worth the cost of having them restored . They are not rare, they are ten a penny.. Saying you couldn't afford to buy into one at £15k since you didnt have the cash at the time is easy to overcome.. a bank loan and spread the cost"

    There isn't much I don't know about cheap lending ... Do you know what "stoozing" is for example?
    The totals I can borrow at any one time are limited.
    I was never going to be able to borrow £15,000 in one shot, but over seven years, most definitely yes.

    "cheaper n the long run if you buy the right bus"


    I think we all know that.
    Part of my "solution" to all this has been to strip a dormant pension pot to buy "the right bus" and being up together, that one is going to be a workhorse.

    "Restoring one of these piles of rust is not an economical option. A tart up might cost more than the tarted up van is eventually worth and would be a never ending saga of chasing repairs"
    A full rsto could run into £50K , when the finished bus would be worth £25K ... They simply dont stack up as a sensible investment,"


    This wasn't a financial imvestment. It was a "retirement lifestyle decision" for getting two old crates like us round the coast of Britain.
    I knew the first bus was bad, and paid very little for it ... Better the devil you know than the one in need of a tart up that you don't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    taiga79, Coco and JamesLey like this.
  9. Yes I've seen that one ...
    There's another choice article by them featuring "his Wife's" Porsche 356.
    Totally written on the basis that its his of course.
    The private plate is the real giveaway though: JHZ 56
    About as near to JH's 356 as you're likely to get, no?
     
  10. Is the law so different between Scotland and England that Fraud south of the border isnt a crime ? lt will cost you nothing to report the circumstances to the Police as a crime of Fraud, you dont have to worry about solicitors ,, its him that would be needing one. Even if you dont have sufficient evidence , you will have created a record of this persons activities, so next time someone makes a complaint, your report is there in the background to serve as corroboration . for all you know there may be a report siiting there already just waiting for more evidence , you might be that link.. Maybee you dont want to take that route. ?
     
    Dub and Dubber likes this.
  11. Having 5 minutes I read through the lengthy Volkszone thread. Being taken in by a VW specialist is nothing new, they all come across as nice guys. Hope you get sorted one way or other.

    Civil or criminal action it looks like you have a big hill to climb, I think you said there was no written contract, hope you can prove you paid him and what for. Best of luck.
     
    Dub and Dubber likes this.
  12. .
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  13. I would steer clear of legal action as costs could be as much as you have lost already. Hard as it may be to swallow, it doesn't make sense to throw away more money on a case which may not go in your favour.

    With litigation cases, there are no guarantees you would win and if you did win, the Court may decide much less than the 15k. and you have to pay legal costs and Court costs plus vat, it may break you.

    Plus, do you really want to get into a roller coaster of lawyers which would add to your suffering.

    My advice is to accept your loss and take the hit and move on and learn from the experience.
     
  14. Actually, when you put it that way I think that could be an excellent next step ... Thank you!
     
    Lasty and 72devon like this.
  15. Thank you, yes, all on record in the form of emailed breakdowns of labour, panels, and consumables ... Interesting variation in the hourly rates on different "invoices" which only goes to show how, shall we say, "chaotic" the business model is?
    There's a problem with linking to the volkszone thread of course, which is its a bit of a long winded and meandering affair because of why it was set up. So I may have to put up a succinct summary somewhere to direct people to instead. That's what I've been advised to do anyway ... Will be good practice for my presentation to the police, council, HMRC etc etc?
     
  16. There is in law usually a requirement to mitigate your loss, if these invoices demonstrate chaos from an early date and then span a long period of time then this is likely to form part of a defence, possibly. I'm not trying to put obstacles in your way, just to demonstrate how difficult these things become, as before good luck.
     
    Dub and Dubber likes this.
  17. I had a similar situation many years ago and I can only suggest from my own experience that you seriously consider walking away and letting it all go.

    Yes, you could go to the police, make a complaint to the council and so on, but that will use up more of your time and emotional energy and you may harm your health in the process.

    I have been through a divorce and that is a similar experience where you have to accept losses, emotional and money and have to let it all go and move on. Sadly some people don't do that and seek revenge and that is not a positive thing to do. Maybe revenge is what you are wanting.

    I think it would help you if you were to accept that you were partly to blame and the dodgy restorer took advantage of your trust.

    You could go to the police or trading standards, but that would not get you any money back. It may make you feel a little better but it may make you worse if they don't see your angle on things.
     
    Dub and Dubber likes this.
  18. Please don’t take this the wrong way but a way that wouldn’t cost you anything but an airing on tv but perhaps you could try Judge Rinder ??
     
  19. I haven't quite got this ...
    The "chaos" was my term, and it only became apparent with hindsight that there were inconsistencies in the invoicing that suggested the hours were tailored retrospectively ( and poorly!) to fit the money requested.
    How does this help the defence?
     
  20. You know what? I have imagined that more than once! My problem there would be that I would most likely not be able to match "the theatrical guile of our mutual friend" ...
     
    Barneyrubble likes this.

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