Stock heaters....talk to me :)

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by Luis Navarro, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. Ok, so finally got round to addressing my lack of heaters today.... Known from a previous look under the bus that the front section of underfloor pipe was missing so I took a trip to Merlin Motorsport at Castle Combe circuit and picked up some copper reinforced neoprene flexi and some glass pack heatwrap. Fitted the pipe but no heat coming through at idle so I'm guessing the fan doesn't spin fast enough to push heat through unless the vans under load? I can see the rear section of underfloor pipe is all there, although it's wrapped in insulation so no telling what shape it's in under that. The rear concertina tubes are present and correct and I appear to have heat exchangers, although the heater control cables appear to be missing so I've wired the flaps open. Also noticed the belly pan is still fitted on the passenger side and from poking my fingers through the holes in it I was able to pull out some substantial loose chunks of rust which doesn't bode well for whatever's above it! :s
    But I digress....heaters....Inside the cab, the pipe from the top of the totem is dangling about an inch above the top of the totem so I'm guessing this should be pushed down into it and attached somehow? I need to get the dash out I think, as none of the demisters seem to be properly in place.... But presumably I should feel heat from the totem top if all is well? There's a lever on the side of it..... Down directs heat from the kick panel vents and up is to the dash? Or am I jumping to the wrong conclusion?
    Is there anything else I should be looking for?
    Thanks in advance :)
     
  2. rickyrooo1

    rickyrooo1 Hanging round like a bad smell

  3. you may or may not have a connection from the diverter/reducer (under the front cross member) that diverts air into the walkthru, via the heater control cable at the dash.
    Obviously, all connections need to be in situ....if the bottom of the totem is cold, either the front section of pipe is missing, the air is being diverted to the walkthru, or maybe this additional pipe to the diverter is missing....reading the above link will solve it...
     
  4. Meant to say, it's a panel van with a full bulkhead so no rear vents :)
    I noticed a cable coming through the floor next to the totem when viewed from underneath which seems to go rearward.... Would this be the heater flap control cable by any chance?
    So should I be able to feel some airflow at idle or do I need to take the old girl out for a rip?
     
  5. you'll get some output at idle but not much....not sure about panels, but ordinarily you'd have a lever controlling both HXs a lever controlling dash/footwell/walkthru.

    on a Kombi, a separate cable from the totem flap lever (midway) runs to the diverter/reducer...if you don't have walkthru vents, I've no idea what your mystery cable does....someone more genned up than me will know....

    stock heaters are fine when everythings in place....the original concertinas are significantly better than the new ones....worth buying if you see some at a show (they'll have metal mesh inside, rather than a low melting point plastic matrix made of gruyere)
     
    Dicky likes this.
  6. Ok.... So I spent an hour or so under the bus this afternoon and checked through all the pipe work from front to back. The rear section of underfloor pipe is shabby but appears leak free, the concertina pipes are the OG type and a little dilapidated but functional although seem to be missing the seals at the diverter valve ends. The heat exchangers appear to be original and are pretty rusty but don't seem to be holed. The heater cables are poking out of the end of the channels but have snapped off about six inches short of the levers on the diverter valves so that explains why they weren't doing much! I think all that's needed is a general tidy up and some insulating tbh. What are people's views on exhaust wrap on the heat exchangers, diverter valves and Y piece? Worth the hassle or a waste of time/not recommended?
    At the cab end of things, the totem is not secured to anything as it turns out.... Basically free standing lol the two cables coming from the left hand heat lever seem to be intact (although obvs not connected at the other end as already established) but the right hand lever cable is dangling loose behind the dash - any ideas where this should be hooked up?
    Went for a spin and I think I could feel a very very faint heat coming through the dash vents, although I might have been imagining things lol
    How much of a gust should I be getting? My only previous experience of air cooled heating was a 62 bug I had when I first learnt to drive and the heaters in that used to melt my All Stars! Lol
    I have a spare heater blower from my water pumpers that is low voltage and compact and I'm wondering if it could be mounted in the cab somehow and set up to pull air through the totem to gee things up a bit.... Anyone tried something along those lines?
     
  7. Is it a type 1 1600 or type 4?
     
  8. Bug 1676
     
  9. basically, the stock system loses heat and pressure along it's entire length, but if everything's in tact and properly sealed it's perfectly adequate for heating/demisting...
    exhaust wrap will certainly retain heat in the HXs and Y piece....
    you can also improve the insulation in the concertinas by unscrewing the outer sleeve and stuffing more Rockwool around the inside....not sure about whether OG ones come apart in the same way as the later style....
     
  10. Follow it through methodically. The air movement is from the engine fan through flexible ducting from the fan shroud and into the heat exchangers. Not overly familiar with type 1s but from memory theres a collector box thing wich is part of the exhaust that the fexis connect to and which in turn is connected to the rear end of the heat exchanger. The air blows through the exchanger picking up the heat and this is controled by the heater flaps at the other end. That blows through the concertinas into the y piece that runs over the rear suspension, into the main heater tube and then dependant on what year a selection of either steel or flexible tubes to the bottom of the totem. (nowt else on a non walkthrough.) Theres a avalve in the totem controled by one of the dash levers which diverts the heat to feet or dash (or a bot of both)

    It all about ensuring the flaps are open, getting rod of any bad connections and other leaks and ensuring there arent any blockages (sometimes the concertinas collapse inside and the insulation can get blown into the syetm.

    Once your happy vove no leaks you should get some heat. Imroving that is a matter of insulation and as it is possible to fit an inline fan - possibly a bilge fan (google) fitted in-line or one of these:
    [​IMG]

    possibly from here:http://www.bluebird-type2.co.uk/Split bay interior.htm
    but you could check out fans from chandlers
     
    vanorak likes this.
  11. So it sounds like I'm on the right track then.... I've replaced the front 70mm flexi which was missing, and wrapped it in insulating heat shield matting. I'll prolly replace the rear flexi section in the same fashion, and seal up and wrap everything back towards the engine as soon as funds allow, but in the face of it there's nothing missing... It just needs a bit of love.
    It sounds as though the dangling control wire is for the direction flap in the totem then, since the other one seems to be connected to the heat exchanger control wires, so I'll need to get the totem out to investigate that further....dash needs to come out to sort out all the vents anyway as it looks like a previous owner has had it all out and slung it all back in without connecting anything up.
    The blowers look pretty good, but I've got the heater fan from a mk1 golf kicking about, which has a decent amount of airflow and won't cost me 'owt to play around with.... Just need to fab some sort of enclosure for it with hose outlets to suit and fit it in somewhere behind the dash lol
     
  12. mikedjames

    mikedjames Supporter

    One reason to not use exhaust wrap on the heat exchangers is that you are potentially creating a warm, damp coating on the thin tin on the outside of the exchanger.
    They fall apart pretty quickly already.
     
    Lasty likes this.
  13. I was thinking about this when I read the original post....I reckon the jury's still out on this....some folk say wrap leads to premature corrosion, others say not.....most of the anedotal info I've read relates to motorbikes, but guess the principle's the same.
    This would be a better option IMO
     
  14. Looks good but how much ?
     
  15. I reckon you'd be looking at about £80-100 for a HX if you shop around....well worth it if it stops corrosion as well.......was going to get my inlet manifold done, but blagged some insulated fibreglass sleeving from a company that does stuff for steel works etc. should retain the heat pretty well
     
  16. Little update.... I deffo have some heat! :) not exactly blowing gales out the vents but definitely warming up. I changed the door seals and fitted a proper vapour barrier behind the cab door cards and that combined with properly fitting the totem and taping up the joints top and bottom seem to have improved things :)
    I found that the bottoms of the doors were clogged up with silt so I scraped this out and cleared the drain holes so hopefully no more wet carpets once things dry out.
    I'm still planning to lag the rear underfloor flexi and the solid pipes, concertinas and foil wrap the heat exchangers as well as poss so hopefully that will improve the airflow even more but I'm pleased with things so far! Still no idea what the mystery dash cable is for though.... It doesnt seem to attach to anything
     
  17. Bhubesi

    Bhubesi Supporter

    A good indication of the system operating correctly is rust flakes and debris coming out of the vents!!
    Get a thick blanket, wrap it around your legs, and a hot water bottle on your lap, I've used this method of keeping warm in my old Austin 10 and Austin 8, heaters were not standard in the '30's and 40's.
    I've used this method in my bus in the very cold winter of 1994. driving from Somerset to Cambridge, in freezing rain, watching the ice build up on the radio antenna.
    Tony
     
    vanorak likes this.
  18. Hahaha that was my routine last winter! I drove to Woolacombe in November wrapped in a sleeping bag with a hot water bottle on my lap and the eber on full chat and it was still freezing due in part to the amount of air coming in around the doors thanks to the terrible repro seals I had at the time. Hoping to avoid that this winter, hence the work on getting things running properly lol
     
  19. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Check for holes where the main pipe passes through the front and rear crossmembers.
     
    vanorak likes this.
  20. Right.... So I've just spent the last four hours under the bus and worked my way from front to back insulating and checking everything.
    I found a three finger sized hole in the reducer at the front crossmember so I've taped this up with air conditioning aluminium tape then wrapped it in insulation, then another layer of tape and it seems ok. The rear flexi I removed and did the same taping from end to end then insulation then another layer of aluminium tape. The Y piece I wire brushed and couldn't find any holes so I lagged it with glass fibre heat wrap and tape. The concertinas I removed and it turns out they're the OG type ones so I cut them open, re packed them with jute felt and foil and resealed them. The heat exchangers I had a good feel around and they don't seem to be holed.... They're actually pretty decent as far as I can tell. Put everything back together and I can feel airflow, although it's still nothing spectacular... More of a gentle breeze.... Is that normal? I must confess I expected a bit more for all my efforts lol
    I'm presuming the engine has to get up to temp before I get heat? I have an oil temp gauge fitted so would this have to read normal operating temperature before maximum heating would be achieved?
     

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