Steering box, is it dead?!

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by optimistic, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. What should a steering box feel like when you rotate it by hand when it's stripped from the van?

    I think I already know the answer to this next part but I'll ask anyway...

    Mine feels like a pepper grinder I'm guessing this isn't normal!?

    It on the bench at work as I didn't have time to look at it once it was out, not sure if it even has oil in it.

    Can you strip and rebuild them?
     
  2. Zed

    Zed Gradually getting grumpier

    Strangely, new ones feel like that too (early ones at least), but an old one shouldn't. Sounds like the bearings may be knacked?
     
  3. Had a bit more time on this, checked and it was full of nice clean oil.

    [​IMG]

    After reading @snotty advice I took the box from the van before trying to remove drop arm, I never would have thought it would come out so easily with it still attached.

    Puller no.1 kept spreading its legs as the tension grew hence the G clamp, I was living upto my username trying to get it off with this one to be honest! It's easy to handle though so thought I would give it a go.......no chance!

    [​IMG]

    Puller no.2 was a big 3 legged affair (forgot to photo in the heat of battle with the box) it just kept slipping off before I could get any real tension on it.

    Puller no.3 a lovely old Sykes pickavant hydraulic one, it's part of a kit with loads of different arms and backing plates, from my dad's days on the tools in ICI. Don't let the small size of the ram fool you this thing puts some extreme pressure on and lulls you into a false sense of security as it's so easy to wind the tommy bolt until things get really tight.

    [​IMG]

    With Sykes and Pickavant on my side victory was always on the cards!

    [​IMG]

    It sounded like a gun shot when it finally let go, I took it like a man though from behind my sheet of plywood :D

    Stripped down to its components, all of the bearings in both races measured 7.94mm when checked in various positions so they're either meant to be like that or it's the most uniform wear pattern known to man! I'm not concerned about reusing them. The gears have little sign of wear and everything seems to look pretty good apart from one part.

    [​IMG]

    The culprit for the grinding feeling is this...

    [​IMG]

    You can see the scoring all the way around where the bearings seat, it's strange as the bearings have no marks on whatsoever, they must be made of good stuff as the gear shaft it absolutely rock solid but has still worn first. I would have contemplated putting it in my lathe and cleaning the score marks away but non of my tooling would stand a chance against this material. It looks as though some foreign body has been in there at some point causing the damage.

    I've dropped it off at my local machine company who said they should be able to machine it, I asked him to note how much needs to come off incase I decide to shim the outer race at the other end of the shaft to compensate, it's not going to need much off to get it smooth again.
     
    Merlin Cat, F_Pantos, Poptop2 and 3 others like this.
  4. I had to do exactly that to mine- although it's a "prototype" so the box is slightly different. I couldn't source an alternative set of bearings so I had to have my box machined out by 1mm, and fitted two sets of deep groove roller bearings (alternatively angular contact could be used, but they're pricey- seeing how we go for now). Total cost was about a tenner, including some new seals :)

    Not sure how much use it'll be- maybe just out of interest, but here are the plans I made:

    Shaft modification:
    http://1drv.ms/1KG4d3d

    Box modification:
    http://1drv.ms/1KG4naV

    And here's a link to the thread about it:

    http://forum.earlybay.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62444
     
    snotty, paradox, deadturtle and 2 others like this.
  5. Shaft came back today, he agreed it was very hard material but they managed to machine the marks out with no problems.

    [​IMG]

    So with all the bits and pieces cleaned up and a seal kit from @Keith.H I set about putting it back together.

    [​IMG]

    All the parts were cleaned up as much as necessary and no more, I've been down the route on previous projects of detailing parts you never see only for them to be covered in crud within a year, so not bothering this time.

    [​IMG]

    It moves nice and smooth now.
     
  6. What a great set of photos. Never seen the inside of a steering box before. The end result of your work is amazing. Well done.
     
    dubsurftones, snotty and optimistic like this.
  7. Looks a bit better, doesn't it? Top job!

    I wonder how many steering boxes are just chucked in the bin, as "worn out", when they could be refurbed.
     
  8. I was thinking that as I put it back together, it's so easy to strip and rebuild as well, even a novice tinkerer could manage it (apart from getting the drop arm off maybe!)
     
  9. What state were the ball bearings and cages in?
     
  10. No noticeable marks on the plastic cages or any of the balls, multiple measurements on the balls showed 7.94 in every direction I must have measured each ball in a few different places at least 4 times each, I couldn't get a reading of anything but 7.94! I though the vernier had malfunctioned at one point!

    It hadn't they were just all identical and I doubt they would wear that evenly so I guess they are as good as new.

    I buy bearings regular in my day job and my supplier confirmed the same thing as reading on the net etc, they aren't available now, and haven't been for a long time. You could probably pop them out and replace the actual balls if you wanted though.
     
    Merlin Cat likes this.
  11. Hmm. I'm tempted to strip my spare box now, just for the fun of it...
     
  12. Hi optimistic,
    I know this is an old thread but wondered if you can remember how much oil the steering box took when refilled?
    I have been searching everywhere for info on how to check the oil level - my steering box looks the same as yours ('79 Bay RHD)
    and is on my bench at the moment.
     
  13. Just fill it up to the top. That's it. It shouldn't lose any oil unless the shaft seal is shot.
     
    Dave Le Van likes this.
  14. So, with the filler hole pointing directly upwards - 'just fill it up'?
     
  15. Yep. Checking the oil with it in place just involves sticking your finger in the filler hole. As above, it shouldn't lose any oil.
     
  16. Thanks Mr Snot!
     
    Gingerbus and snotty like this.
  17. The steering box on my 73 bay leaves puddles of oil behind if parked up for any length of time. I guess this is bad and it’s probably nearly empty. I have a spare steering box from a 76 which also has leaked oil whilst lying in the garage, it worked fine till I took it off the scrap camper, I thought I could refurb it and swap them. Is this likely to be just the oil seal/seals and are they easily changed?
     
  18. If it's piddling oil when upright, likely to be the shaft seal. Pretty easy to change, if you can get the drop arm off.
     
  19. mikedjames

    mikedjames Supporter

    If the seals are just a bit leaky then swapping them over is a one day job including removing, cleaning, replacing seals and replacing the box.

    Just make sure you have a puller capable of doing the job- I bought a 6 inch puller fron Cromwell Tools and had to use an 18 inch breaker bar on it to pull the arm. Hydraulic pullers may be better.
     

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