Engine Teardown of Razzyh 2056 Type 4 engine

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by Patrick Nguyen, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. davidoft

    davidoft Sponsor

    Yup
     
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  2. :hattip:
     
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  3. 20180314_221623.jpg 20180314_221502.jpg 20180314_221549.jpg 20180314_221218.jpg 20180314_203527.jpg 20180314_221724.jpg 20180314_221529.jpg 20180314_221724.jpg 20180314_221429.jpg 20180314_221201.jpg It's not pretty. All main bearing shot. mangled conrod bearing. One Sunken exhaust valve, but did have a Tappet that was stuck causing the valve not to fully open. Cam bearings pitted and scored

    Have a feeling the engine was having oil pressure issues looking at the oil pump plate. the engine has clearly overheated.

    Not going to reuse the crank. It is so badly scored and has been ground once already. better to buy a new crank. Case will need checking with the engine builders.

    Pistons and barrels are fine. They have a very small dish so compression must have been high. Heads were leaking oil heavily loosing compression.

    Strangely case is CU, but has been fitted with CJ Oval heads. The heads seem pretty stock to me as the valves and ports are the same size as my CU heads.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2018
  4. So... its a bit knackered then!
     
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  5. Except shims in the head give you 2 sealing faces to fail in a chamber with high compression. Base shims only have to deal with case pressure.. Which shouldn't be that much.
     
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  6. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    I don’t need to as I’m not that interested. Fact is, 2 different machines / operators will give 2 different results. They’re more to show a pattern rather than absolute figures.
    Also bear in mind that people always say the garages they use, are the best.
     
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  7. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    You know what has happened but not why. Did debris in the oil cause the bearing failures or did the bearings breaking up cause the debris? Was there low oil pressure, or did the oil overheat? Or…
    That looks like a Schadek oil pump. They are frequently undersize on the OD and loose in the crankcase sucking in air on the inlet and leaking oil on the discharge (the leaks are internal and not visible). Was the pump easy to remove? And what length are the pump gears?
    Did you measure the deck height?
    Arguably oval port heads reject heat more readily than square port and it’s not significant that oval port heads have been fitted to a crankcase that would originally have had square port. All type 4 crankcases are essentially the same, several detail differences (the CU will be single relief for instance) but parts are interchangeable.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  8. How many others on here have recently rebuild their engine and are now thinking, i used that oil pump, i deleted the head gaskets, etc . I even used a hydraulic cam and lifters !!!
     
  9. Razzyh

    Razzyh Supporter

    That oil pump is a type 1 pump. I’m 99% certain about that. Paul modifies then and puts some sort of cover on them.
     
  10. MorkC68

    MorkC68 Administrator

    I'm not :eek:

    I "borrowed" Micks OG type pump from his bus whilst he wasn't looking eh @3901mick :lol:

    In the third photo, has the bearing locating pin twisted and burred its locating hole over? Possible bearing shift?
     
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  11. I'm quite suprised by the blow by on the heads, not the cause of this problem but i wonder how common this is ?
     
  12. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    If the pump was easy to install it was probably undersize but it’s one of the normal checks to make as you build an engine so you should know if it’s good or not.:)

    No problem with deleting the head gasket, that’s what you’re supposed to do but you must check the deck height and compression ratio and adjust as necessary with cylinder a base shim. I posted the VW service bulletin earlier.

    The problem with hydraulic cams is the limited profiles available and they have a hard time because the followers are always preloaded against the cam. With a solid cam there is clearance when the follower is on the base circle for the oil film. Hydraulic followers have been of poor quality but I’ve noticed WebCam are available and these should be fine.
     
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  13. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    Schadek is a type 1 pump. They usually come with an alloy cover, the engine builder has fitted a steel cover and he would have modified the pump to give clearance for the cam gear bolts.
     
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  14. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    Maybe the bearing has moved a bit but it looks like it was in good contact on the saddle and I think it has just taken a pounding – worth looking at the back of the bearing though.
     
  15. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    It’s quite common and very common if head gaskets have been fitted because once a small leak occurs the head gasket rapidly fails and a small leak becomes a big leak – that’s why VW deleted them.
     
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  16. MorkC68

    MorkC68 Administrator

    Could be the case.
     
  17. The heads were the new type which did not require the gaskets on the head, but I did check the lower head studs torque, but now I think of it I was checking at 23NM which is wrong. shoud be ft lb.

    The lower bolts cracked a lot easier than the tops from memory. The copper exhaust gasket was blowing on one port, but forgetten which.

    The thin gasket on the barrels to case was there as usual.

    I should have measured the decks, but was far too excited to see what damage was inside. However I can get a rough measurement from the carbon lip.

    The oil pump was a good fit to the case. The pump was 30mm. The only mod needed to the pump is a little sanding to clear the studs. Other than that I don't know what issues you get. I think my other type 4 rebuilds have a maxi 5 I think at 26mm. I'll check the gears on their clearances.

    When I removed the case the dowels looked OK, but the crank and the bearings are ridged and burned.
     
  18. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    A 30mm pump is far too large. The standard 24mm is best, 26mm if an external oil cooler is fitted. A larger pump results in overpressure at start-up and overheating.
     
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  19. 77 Westy

    77 Westy Supporter

    In theory the step in the heads replicates the gasket and no cylinder base shims are required, however, it depends on which pistons are used and the combustion chamber volume. Deck height and compression ratio should always be checked when building an engine.
     
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  20. Razzyh

    Razzyh Supporter

    I’m finding your knowledge very interesting. You clearly seem to know a bit more than the engine builder.
     
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