Engine ~ rebuild or buy new?!!? 1641cc / 1776cc?

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by Jude 33, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Hello,

    Have done a pretty full resto on the VW van..... panels, paint, interior, brakes, wiring.....
    ...... you know how it goes..... (on & on!!)

    Anyways, we took our first camping trip, (really loved it - VW at the pub Wimborne 2019) Pleasure..... followed by pain.... the 1641 lump struggled.... we now know the crank has movement - we have end play on the bottom pulley.....

    We have a big decision:

    1. rebuild the 1641 lump
    2. rebuild 1641 but upgrade to 1776
    or.....
    3. buy new 1776 lump from heritage.

    Personally, cannot go for the unknown, buy from ebay option - so unknown, what you are buying / quality of work..... What do you think? What did you do?

    Currently, have resto van but cannot drive it!!!
     
  2. Build one... if you've done the rest putting a block back together is not much more than building up from an exchange unit.. you know you want to
     
  3. Baysearcher

    Baysearcher [secret moderator]

    Most engines have endfloat.
    Define “struggled”?
     
    Lasty likes this.
  4. I have endfloat and I struggle.
     
    77 Westy likes this.
  5. There is another option if you find a standard engine a bit gutless...



    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
     
    Kruger, 77 Westy and scrooge95 like this.
  6. What do you mean by 'struggled'? I have an exchange 1641 and it copes fine lugging my family of four and wooden Devon interior around. Not exactly fast but that's not the point with a T2. I'd rebuild the 1641 if it needs it, but maybe your problems are related to the carb or manifold air leaks..? What are the symptoms?
     
    snotty likes this.
  7. I too have had 1641 engines. All have been good for 70mph on the flat and allow climbing of a 1 in 5 hill at 20mph indicating about 50HP at the wheels in a 2 ton loaded bus. Changes to the exhaust and carburettor have added a little to the power but not much.

    Maybe you are just expecting too much from an engine tuned in the 50-70HP region. If you push hard enough you will find the front end quite prepared to start losing grip even with that little power. .

    Endfloat is a symptom of wear used to gauge the life span of the engine. An engine with 1mm of endfloat can still deliver good power and moderately healthy oil pressure.

    Now you have finished the resto, sort your engine, get rid of air leaks you might have built in by misaligning or pinching seals and gaskets.., tune it up, set timing, make sure it has an SVDA distributor and stock air feed into the carburettor, chuck away any Monza style exhaust, drive it more...
     
    Jack Tatty likes this.
  8. I built a 2316cc Type 4 - because I live in France and had to keep the engine as per the original specification (the 2316cc looks the same as a 2.0l on the outside).

    If I had a bus with a type 1 engine, and lived in the UK, I’d go for option 4 as Lasty suggests.
     
    F_Pantos and Lasty like this.
  9. I’m really sorry to add to the confusion here. A couple of years ago I was in the same predicament and went 1641 brand new motor and thought that would see me out etc etc. The brand new motor was in fact from VW Brazil and had a few significant mods to the motors of VW Germany, some of which have caused me several issues resulting in the big yellow taxi. I thought that a brand new motor was the way forward but I’m not alone in being surprised by the lack of quality with these motors. I would on hindsight sooner have rebuilt my original lump and wish I could get it back. Yours however is already a 1641 and may possibly be a Brazilian motor but it’s definitely been fiddled with to get it to 1641 in any case. I’d be all for letting someone with a strong reputation have a look at it to decide if it’s toast or if something can be done to create a new lease of life for this little motor, or rebuild it to whatever spec you want. Able at Afonso motors in Gloucester is a sound chap that’ll always go the extra mile for a happy customer, but a lot of this depends on where you live. But please remember that we’re asking quite a lot of pre war air cooled technology to move a two ton concrete block around to today’s driving conditions and styles. But you’re doing the absolute right thing in exploring all available options, possibly even the “”wet””” ones :eek:

    Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,, can we all just pretend that I didn’t mention the wet thing ?:)
     
    F_Pantos likes this.
  10. Well I also went new 1641, stock air filter, SVDA and new clutch. I felt it struggled. 'New' gearbox with a slightly longer 4th and it feels like we are flying ( well maybe thats a little exaggerated ), but cruises at 65-70 at under 3000 and pulls away. On a long slow climb you will still end up in 2nd though.....
     
  11. What do you mean by "struggled"? Has the engine been serviced (tappets and timing set, etc)? What do you mean by end play on the pulley?
     
  12. There has to be some end play or the engine will seize when hot..



    When it comes to new engines I am still 100% happy with the way a JK Preservation Parts 1641 has turned out. It seems to have been well put together, runs cool, delivers torque at the low end, hot idles at 20 PSI oil pressure and 45 PSI at speed after 7500 miles.. The EMPI heads even have flash free castings so they cool better than the badly cast genuine VW Brazil heads I had on the previous engine.
     
  13. Rebuild your own 1776,with right cam and carbs will give you,best value power.
     
    Andy_H_VW and snotty like this.
  14. ^this. Just right for a Bay, I reckon. A bit of grunt, but not too much, and you get past that brick wall that a 1600 hits where it just can’t produce any more power.
     
    Andy_H_VW and 72devon like this.
  15. I know that it costs money to have the case and heads cut but that brings back the wall thickness on barrels,worth the cost.
     
    snotty likes this.
  16. I know people go on about torque and they are right,but a good 1776 combo will give 100bhp.That will climb hills.
     
  17. I'm getting a new 1776 built
    Stock cam ported heads nothing exciting or exotic. Will wait and see what torque it puts out.
     
    paulcalf likes this.
  18. 1776 Engle 110 cam,twin 40 carbs 101bhp.
     
    Andy_H_VW likes this.
  19. Close but a stock grind and twin itc Webbers until I can afford/find proper carbs
     
  20. Its the cam that makes the diff, twin icts will still give 85 hph ,and save a case split for cam upgrade.
     
    snotty likes this.

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